Kamen Rider Saber Episode 21- "The Best Full Shine Color!" Discussion
 

Touma's hunt for the Megid is interrupted in an attempt to force control of the rogue sword.

So, we can expect Primitive next week, right?

How long will it take for Primitive Dragon to come out. I so wanna see him lash out at his former buddies! Mostly Blades and Kenzan.

Can you imagine Kenzan’s neck snapped like with Kusaka?

This is a kids show, and we’ve not had anything that dark in almost two decades.
The closest we’ll get is something like what happened to Aoba in Build - but even then, the staff have implied they have plans for Ren, so he’s not dying any time soon.

As for when we’ll see it? Good question! I thought it’d be next episode, but I guess it’ll be the one after! None of the preview screenshots are implying it for the next one, at least.

Did Jin shooting a Magia in the head point-blank not count?

Primitive's toy is not out till 2/27 so earliest we could see it would be the 21st

That was an enemy henchmen, not a named character we’re expected to mourn.
Even Aoba, flat character that he is, had been given a tragic backstory by part of Kazumi’s by that point.

Honestly it kind of didn't.

The Magia was already stated by the show to be a robot/android, and it was in it's armored state for the shooting, so there's almost no "human" element connected to they death. What's more, the director was careful enough to not actually show the bullet going into the Magia's head, but just Jin pulling the trigger and the Magia collapsing.

So while yes it was dark, it still isn't much compared to showing a human character being realistically killed off like Kusaka's neck snap.

Honestly probably the most shocking thing about this episode is the Wonder World Story Books. They are legitimate things in Saber and one was used to grant Yuri a powerup.

Curious to see if the others will come into play at any point.

This was a Very Special episode for Touma, Yuri, and Daishinji! Sugihara did a very well job on this one.

With the scene of Megid having a pile of Alter books and Touma and Mei going out to talk to people, it seems as though that while they were busy with Shingo, there were SEVERAL other people that Touma failed to save and became Megids. We of course see this when Megid went out to turn a lot of people into Megid, but could've been handwaved as just an introduction to many of the MOTWs to come. But this, it made it so that Touma, AND SOL FAILED their tasks of saving people. Of course they might make it so that you can still save the people completely turned into Megid, but it's still an interesting event to happen to Touma.

We learned that Daishinji's family are the first homosapien blacksmiths to create a Holy Sword and that being Rekka. Yuri also wielded both Kurayami and Saikou at some point.

We also learn that Seikens are also able to power themselves up which may explain how Slash was able to overpower Saber a few episodes ago. I also like how it made it so that it didn't matter what form Touma could use or what special attack he could throw, it had to be his own swordsmanship and his own Seiken that got Dashinji's guard off. This shows that Touma has a long way to grow past his "finisher throwing" style he used to pull back in Q1.

Daishinji is, so far, the best character in northern SOL. Goddamn Ogami and Rintarou need some screentime! Which may come soon as tomorrow has Blades and Buster go up against Saber.

Now, for Yuri. It's amusing to see Tassel actually play an active supporting role for Yuri, and that the "Story of ___" books can actually contain the abilities of a swordsman. Kinda makes sense considering each of the swordsmen are technically their own story, so of course they'd have WRBs about their stories.

As ridiculous as X-Swordsman looks, it... works? Yuri's appreciation for a dumb superhero comic works well for the silly design and powers of the form.

It's also interesting that Storious is innovating on how he can get to complete a WRB. Kinda also disappointed that Legeiel and Zooous have yet to do anything of worth and will probably just be killed off since Storious is the most active out of them all.

Loved that Dainshiji is the first to support Touma and with Ogami next. It'll be fun to see it all fall apart with Touma's super form, Primitive Dragon!

These first generation Swordsmen do look quite familiar...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtlwfoCX...g&name=900x900

Holy! You're right! And someone else said that the other two look like Master Logos and Tassel... If that actually turns out to be true, that's some great foreshadowing and would be totally in line with the book leading towards Avalon talking about the sword of light and shadow being the first swords to be created way before it was actually confirmed by Yuri way later.

According to the website, the story of Saber only accelerates from here on out. Interesting to see where this goes.

I might not be seeing the same thing everyone else is seeing, but... Storious, Legeiel and Zooous? But with medieval fantasy clothes that I wish they were still wearing because they're way more interesting than their modern outfits?

I've been wanting more backstory on the three villains since the beginning, and theorizing since the first "turn a human into a Megid" plot that maybe the other Megid were also human at some point, so I'm very curious to see if anything comes of this.

Yuri is like the new secondary rider saikou more so than rintaro. It seem like they make up whatever comes along like its time to give the villain some backstory and usually the best one is some family ties and depths with the heroes. Cliche twist, but depend on execution not expecting high hopes from first third of the series.

This might be my favaorite episode yet. We've got everything Touma and Daishinji hashing things out, the villians actually succeding, lots of lore being dumped out, Touma conviction being tested and strengthened and even briging up the fact that Touma has been more reliant on his upgrades then actual skill.

The episode was directed by Teruaki Sugihara the main director of Lupat and Zero-One who you might reconize his work from 1st episode, Rampage Gattling debut and Reiwa The First Generation from the Kamen Rider side of his work. So yeah love the imagery in this episode.

https://i.redd.it/czfu16hzs2g61.jpg

I gotta say, I liked this episode.

It was really cool getting some more in-depth lore on the world (shame we had to wait half the show to get it, but I digress). The fights were awesome, especially Saikou's powerup (gives me more Ex-Aid vibes than Slash did).

If the series keeps this up, I'll probably recommend Saber on the basis of "bad first half, amazing second half".

It makes sense that Yuri would be related to both elements. As Saikou, he is both a sword and a person, who summons a shadow cast from his own light to wield himself when not being wielded by another swordsman. Calibur, in both of his forms, also has an ability to interact with shadows, which would probably make him a good opponent for the otherwise invincible Saikou Shadow.

According to Daishinji, all the Seiken Swords have their own voices that he's able to perceive thanks to his heightened hearing. This could explain why the default forms are still relevant if a swordsman's power is determined more by the strength of the connection between their will and the will of their Seiken Sword. It's like how Saber wasn't able to unlock the full power of King of Arthur until he proved himself worthy and maybe that's how future forms will work, like controlling Primitive Dragon. It's about using the Seiken Swords as an instrument of will and the philosophy of what makes a Kamen Rider a hero rather than just a weapon.

It looks like Ogami already has faith in Daishinji's judge of character, as they go way back. Daishinji's challenge to Touma was mostly a test to see if his sword was still as strong as his pen, figuratively speaking, so Ogami will probably just want to confirm his righteousness for himself as well, before he commits fully to being his ally once more. Their loyalty is to their mission, not SOL specifically, and they're a little older than the others so they have the experience and wisdom to make their own decisions.

Rintarou and Ren are definitely going to be the hardest to convince. Rintarou is conflicted between his loyalty to SOL and the promise he made with Touma, Kento and Mei, all of whom he considers family. Ren's still just kind of being an a**hole right now.

I think Saikou X Sword Man does the humanoid power-up for non-humanoid Rider thing better than Lazer Turbo. I like how it's not so much Saikou shapeshifting in to that form but rather possessing his own shadow in a way similar to Den-O Climax Form and Zi-O Trinity. He can move around the suit fluidly, becoming a leg or an arm when necessary. It's such a cool and unique concept for a Rider!

Yeah, that's what we're seeing as well.

Very interested in their backstory now for sure, since this means they were probably good guys at some point. Although it's hard to imagine for some of them since Legeiel is such a stereotypical villain and Storious just seems to get creepier each time he shows up. Zooous has his backstory with killing Kenshin and now his rivalry with Rintarou and I'm looking forward to seeing how that subplot develops. But maybe the way they are now was due to something tragic and terrible happening to them 1000 years ago. Perhaps, they were also manipulated and wronged like Hayato was and this is all just part of greater scheme shrouded in mystery.

I think the other three could be Tassel, Master Logos and Sophia. I don't trust this Master Logos dude, since Reika serves him directly which leads me to believe he's the source of the corruption. Allegedly, SOL collect the Seiken Swords and Wonder Ride Books to protect the world from the Megids, but maybe that's just a convenient excuse to hoard them for purposes yet to be determined, another part of the elusive ultimate truth. I'm abandoning my previous theory that Tassel is evil, since he and Yuri seem pretty tight the same way Daishinji and Ogami are.

OH! GOSH! Did you see that? Was that character development? Was that plot development? Too bad it was bookended by the introduction of what I feel to be possibly the ugliest suit design since Ex-Aid, but at least maybe Yuri will be useful now? :p

I don't know if my standards have just dropped over the past twenty episodes to the point that I will take this as a "good" episode, but it was a pleasant surprise not to have to ask myself why I wasted the last 23 minutes or so when the credits finally rolled on this one.

I haven't gotten to this episode yet (I'm a little behind), but I have to say this:

I disagree with every single word in that sentence.

I don't want to start a fight or anything, but our opinions of this show couldn't possibly be more different.

Hahah, you won't start a fight, don't worry, I'm quite rational! It's good to have differing opinions! I'm glad you're enjoying it!

Okay, that's good. I wasn't sure if I should've said that for a minute. "Agree to disagree" as the saying goes.

Now I need to find the last few episodes...

Of course you should say it! I'm super sorry if I gave the impression of being unapproachable, I'd hate you to think that! Honestly, I would never begrudge someone liking something just because I don't, and I never understand when people adopt that line, so I'm happy you're getting something out of the show!

Wait now that I think about it wouldn't whoever owns the SwordXMan character have the right to sue Yuri for taking their character and designs. Yuri probably dosen't know anything about copyright laws or anything since he's over 2000 years old. What if the final boss is a lawyer.:lolol

He's like one of those "men's rights" guys that dresses up as Spider-Man to protest "feminism" or something, lol.

I never thought you were like that! I wasn't worried you'd get mad or anything. I just have a weird combination of having strong opinions and not wanting conflict with people. I guess I was more afraid of causing a misunderstanding like this one. Oops.

Haha, no you're good, Prism, you're good. I have a very high opinion of you and your art too, don't worry. :p

Wow, that's... Thanks. You're awesome too!

You're welcome! <3

By the way, this episode confirms Dragon of the Stars hasn't been debunked.

It's really weird seeing the main rider go through such a good episode that brings all his character development so far to a point, challenges his core ideals and points out the naivety of his claim to "save everyone," then makes him fight to prove the strength of his conviction and even mentions a special power lying dormant in his transformation item waiting to awaken...

Only to get eaten by the MotW so some other rider can save him and show off a flashy new form he got just by asking for it.

I mean come on, this was like the perfect power-up episode, except that it went to the wrong rider! Don't get me wrong, Touma has more than enough forms already and we know he's going to get even more, I'm not complaining that he didn't get yet another. It just feels like a miss, is all. Like they should have spaced out the three parts of Crimson Dragon more to give them more weight and saved Dragonic Knight for this episode. (And also spaced out Blades and Espada's three-book combos more, and saved King Lion Daisenki for when Rintaro actually earns a new power instead of just "hey Daishinji, give me the new toy.")

I don't hate X-Swordman? It's fine. It's funny. I wish Yuri had actually gone through character development and updated his ideas of justice, instead of just suddenly saying "it seems justice is different these days. Hey Tassel, give me the new toy."

I do like Tassel getting a bit more involved in the plot though, as annoying as he was at first I kind of like him as this mysterious, whimsical-but-sometimes-ominous figure somehow connected to the backstory. Speaking of which, finally, backstory! I'm glad they didn't go overboard with infodumping early on, but I was really waiting for this, and I still want more but I'm not disappointed with what we got, quite the opposite.

Well, they do still have to sell a toy. I actually liked that despite Touma being able to power his Seiken, he still lost, but was able to partially separate the Megido from the host. Kinda shows growth on his abilities but still a long way.

I don't wanna say that this is the intention, but I find the scenes Yuri playing around with the modern world to be the catalyst for X-Swordman. The comic book only set it in stone. The form looks ridiculous, still, but it's ridiculous enough that I forgive it. Much like Ex-Aid and Slash.

Also, Rintarou NEEDS to do something. We're almost the episode mark where Primitive will show up and a possible P-Bandai item for either Espada or Calibur (or both) and he's yet to transform more than once. I'm glad he gets to transform next week, but he better go through some shit afterwards.

Still waiting for Primitive Dragon to go on a psycho rampage!

X-SwordMan is impressive so far.

I really like X-Swordsman's motif, that being comic books. Also reminds me of how colors are actually just different wavelengths of light being transmitted to our eyes; something quite fitting for the sword of light.

I'm not too big a fan of the execution though but it could grow on me.

The subtle hint on Desast's origins was nice. I thought it was strange that all the Megiddos (except the generals of course) were based on existing stories or animals or whatever while Desast was a "huh? Whadda heck is he supposed to be?" thing.

Makes sense if he really was created from an amalgamation of books and could explain his twisted personality.

Ok time to shit on this episode . . . . . or at least I would but this was a better episode. Nothing really stand out to me to complain about.

Someone forgot the time in Gaim when Sid became pulpy cherry juice between two boulders. Also Calibur getting a sword rammed through his chest. Also in Gaim, a guy "killing" his brother, a girl "dying" from getting something harvested from her body. Also the countless people who became fertilizer for Helhiem after being scratched by an Ives. Hell Build even had human experimentation which did involve in death where they would turn people into Smash then kill them with flame throwers (go watch the Cross-Z V-Cinema for this one).

It doesn't happen as often now as it did before Neo Heisei but the show can have some "dark" moments for a kid show.

Don't trust her! She has people locked up in her basement with their eyes forced open Clockwork Orange/Robot Chicken style. Forcing them to watch so much shit till they agree with her opinions. Which is awful.

At least when I do it I am trying to corrupt them.

*hisses and quickly throws a blanket over her torture chair*

Don't tell them that! I'm all sweetness and light, promise. :p

I have reason to believe you have been giving people sweets spiked with horse laxatives.

Damn it, Saber, why did you have to make me start wondering about what exactly Tassel's deal is? I was perfectly happy to just fast forward through his sections like I do with the opening and ending credits. Now I'm genuinely curious about him and I am not cool with that.

So I'm starting to wonder if the show is beginning to pull a Drive on me: crappy first half, really good second half. I'm not sure it's there yet, but I am almost looking forward to new episodes now instead of dragging my feet before getting around to them.

I'm still completely uninterested in the villains, but I really liked the stuff with Touma and Daishinji this week. I like the pairing of Daishinji and Ogami, too, as the more veteran Riders in the organization. Yuuri's new form turned out better than I thought it would in action; I like the Climax Form style shifting of the color pieces on top of the standard black suit.

I haven't looked up who wrote this one, but I know it wasn't Fukuda because Mei is acting like a normal homo sapiens.

Looking forward to the 3rd Reiwa Rider series after this nightmare of a crapstick show is over