Kamen Rider Revice Episode 9- "Runaway Kagero! The Brothers Collapse!" Discussion
 

Fenix orders Ikki to eliminate Kagero- but the Igarashi family will not stand for it.

That part where Vice completely hogs the screen for his hashtag was a kind of pain I haven't felt in a long time.

Felt a bit the same but I was still too happy to see a random guy wearing Banjou's jacket.

Vice being an attention seeker isn't exactly anything new, you know. It makes sense that he would take advantage of Revi leaving him to fight solo to show off for his fanbase. As long as he doesn't eat anybody or anything like that, I say let him have his harmless fun and self-promotion.

I guess Kagerou doesn't know the rules of the kitchen, since he doesn't say Oui Chef like he was supposed to. Or more likely, being a devil, he just doesn't give a damn.

Ikki's still being ignorant, as everybody around him points out that there might be something beneath the surface of Daiji, but he refuses to acknowledge that his little brother has a problem, especially when faced with Kagerou telling him it's his fault. It validates his fear of hurting others in the first arc, since being a Kamen Rider, a hero of justice, inadvertently gave Kagerou the means to take over through Daiji's hidden jealousy. Daiji was always living in Ikki's shadow and now he's resigned to living in his own as well. Ikki doesn't like being in a position to let others down, but he needs to take responsibility for this if he wants to save Daiji.

Good timing for Yukimi coming home last week, since she seems to function as the heart of the family who gets the others out of their funk about Daiji leaving them. Without her, they might have given in to the despair.

Remix and Machine parallel:

Nothing to compare for Revice this week either! I imagine a mantis Machine would be cool though. However, Demons' Mole Genomix could be a parallel to a Rockbreaker.

So George says the Kamikiri Vistamp is one suited to counter Evil. But in this episode the form got beaten by Evil Jackal. It honestly feels like they mixed up Kamikiri with Gorilla considering how that match up went last week.

Yeah, I'm getting a bit tired of his antics to be honest... they're just downright unfunny at best but also get in the way of his actually being a character and having any meaningful interactions with Ikki. He's probably the biggest issue I have with Revice right now; that the whole "there's two main Riders and they're made up of a guy and his own demon he has to confront" is being wasted so thoroughly after the first couple episodes. Usually Rider waits until after Christmas for its gimmick to be completely discarded :lol

Aside from that though, pretty good episode and pretty good series so far! Really liked the bit where Ikki's confronting the idea that he's potentially better at fulfilling Daiji's dreams than him and what that makes him. We'll see how true that actually is with next episode's development, though...

I know it ties into, what Kagerou just explained, Ikki relishing in the spotlight. Like, Vice is a reflection of that, in an ironic sense that people are ignoring him to.

But... I'm still waiting for them to turn him into an actual character instead of something that pops up every now and then to make noises and lose to whatever enemy is in front of them. It's grating because even he is aware about how he's just being beaten up and uncool he is. The scene where he talks to Ikki about freeing Daiji, that's good! I want that! I want more of that, not the other parts of this episode.

Edit: now that we're potentially ending the Kagerou arc next week, two things, one I feel like this arc should've happened in the 10s, not literally the first part of the series, but oh well. Two, I am oddly worried for Kagerou.

Hyuga as Kagerou is pretty good so far, I may enjoy him more than Daiji I suppose, I do wonder however how they'll handle him and Evil later on in the show. Would be kinda disappointing if he just exists to pop up and lose to whatever enemy is in front (Like Vice lmao).

I am so glad to pop into the thread and seeing people agreeing that Vice is getting really, really annoying :lol

It's as if Yurusen from Ghost was also a Rider. I really hope he actually grows as a character, because good lord I'm sick of him and it's not even hit the 15 episode mark.
It's as if they wanted to make another Momotaros (Loud mouthed Monster-rider that is focused on fighting and looking cool while doing it), but forgot everything that makes Momo interesting (Such as shutting his fucking mouth once in a while)

Also, Demons' Mole weapon having Amazon's color scheme. Nice touch~

The thing with Yurusen is that she still interacts with the cast and also isn't a constant presence, plus she's Aoi Yuuki, so I like her.

Momotaros is also very much part of the cast as opposed to being a ghost that shows up to talk to the viewer. And also isn't jarring to hear as opposed to Vice.

Am i the only one that enjoy Vice on driver seat at least..
Yeah the hastag thingy is cringe but i enjoy his fight TBH he needs more his own battle if i be honest, at least he is better than saber's green boy wonder

Sakura continue to be badass as always

I really enjoy Revice but after kagerou arc i kinda worried if they still have exciting arc TBH

That's... an interesting take.

https://i.imgur.com/gzm0Ug6.jpeg

I was gonna say majority of saber's cast but i think the green boy is fair choice for comparisson lol

Couldn't help but notice that not only did Sakura get a lot of plot focus in this episode, but also George saying "she may have a demon inside her"...I think her turn as a Rider may be imminent.

It does feel like we're moving through the Kagerou arc kinda fast, but at the same time, I really wouldn't want them to drag this out as many early Heisei shows would. I know this applies to last episode, but I like that we've largely averted the Inoue trope of character conflicts being drawn out due to one or both parties never figuring on what's actually going on (i.e., Yuji and Takumi feuding for 30 episodes because of a massive misunderstanding of events). Instead, Ikki is immediately aware that Daiji is under demonic possession, so no 10 episodes of angsting over his brother being evil (no pun intended) while we the audience already know what's happening.

I enjoyed that Kagerou straight up told Ikki that, despite all the good he's been doing, he basically caused his creation by never letting Daiji out of his shadow.

So even with Kagerou revealing his identity to others, there's still can be conflict and drama present among the family, with Ikki being assigned to finish off Daiji by George and Wakabayashi, with Hiromi encouraging Ikki to do that too (as Hiromi who deals the finish blow). George is able to be dubious and suspicious here, even without him shoving the order into Ikki, assigning him to finish off Daiji in his usual goofy, sleazy way, even if Ikki objects. This'd also reveal another shrewd quality of George (which Wakabayashi also notes) that he's also the type who places scientific research above anything else (along with spy cameras), he doesn't care about the user's morality, only giving Drivers to those he deems suitable, which is how he gives Kagerou the Driver. Said Wakabayashi seems to have some questionable morals himself (but not ambiguously evil ones like George), he seems to be the pragmatic type who'd use any kind of method to get the job done and encourages others to do the same, being onboard with the orders to finish off Kagerou without any hesitation, as well as ignoring what's going through with Daiji/Kagerou, and that's probably how he berates others for being swayed by emotions, which is actually about him celebrating cold detached traits, and that he places Fenix's reputation above everything else. Not much to talk about Hiromi character wise here, other than how he's also cooperative with others like Ikki, another good trait, but I'd like to see how'd he deal the finishing blow. Hiromi's really taking the Showa part, where his new form Mogura Genomix resembles Amazon.

Now Kagerou's the one to go giving out ViStamps, and so far he did it in a more brutal way than the Deadmans, who were goading the humans to give into their desires, practically doing "good" against them, albeit only temporary (the consequence of shallow desires) and that it won't do good to others, while against the Super Sentai alumnis, Kagerou took them hostage, and probably tortured them too shown in the injuries of those 3 scammers. Though those 3 aren't good people, Kagerou targeting them and making them miserable doesn't make Kagerou good, evil people can target other evil people too, one of the prominent example is Daguva killing other Grongis in Kuuga. New information regarding Daiji is revealed, now I don't know if Daiji is blameless anymore, Kagerou's the one who commits the actions, but he claims all of that can be traced back into Daiji, where Kagerou pretty much recounts Daiji's entire life until now, of being the jealous brother under Ikki's shadow, where it's the reason of him joining Fenix as well to shine as Kamen Rider, only for Ikki to take over the Kamen Rider role as well, with Kagerou manifesting if there's enough hatred from Daiji. Though as usual, Daiji still has his conscience to not go through his insecurity, and the conflict that happened between them so far was only about Ikki not being committed enough, while Kagerou is Kagerou. I'd want to see if Daiji is actually aware of this and grapples with his conscience, or probably also a lesson to not turn envy or insecurity into destructive trait. Nevertheless, it managed to give a lasting impact to Ikki, albeit he keeps going. Another Kagerou trait is that he actually likes feeling pain due to it meaning that he had full control of the body.

It seems that Sakura's most respected person so far is Daiji, getting enraged at those who are against Daiji, including Ikki. So there's something Daiji at least is superior to Ikki; getting Sakura's approval, dunno what though, though I'd say at least she resembles Daiji the most; being a more serious person and both gets embarrassed and annoyed with the family's antics (with Daiji denying his relation to them in promotion). The opposite to others is also about how Sakura's the only one to not treat Daiji as baby-ish unlike the other Igarashis, or even Fenix like Hiromi. Sakura is in-universe refered as strong by other practicioner, and I guess there's a set up with her question to herself that having strength doesn't mean one'll be happy.. I like puns so I rather like Vice's scene of inserting "daiji" in as many sentences he can, but I also think that the fourth wall joke in this episode from him is just uninspired and too blatant. Vice also suggests that Daiji won't be able to be saved... I wonder if that's Ikki's secret skepticism against Daiji. Both of the parents kinda are forcing the family members to be happy. The Kamakiri Genome, Gaim-based, is one of those that has "accurate" weapon to the source material, Kamakiric Arrow is like Sonic Arrow, can shoot energy arrows as well as close combat.

Well, Ikki wasn't aware... more like Kagerou reveals himself directly to Ikki :p, Kagerou made it easier for the heroes.

Hello! I'm late. What else is new.

So last episode, we got to see Kagerou is running the show and keeping Deadmans in their place (at this point Julio might just be a twisted version of Kengo from Ultraman Trigger), and revealed himself to Ikki. It was a really good episode, with lots of fun little bits. Am I the only one who thought Papa-San looked like Shouichi/Evolt in that suit?

Here, we get to see Kagerou running rampant just to keep Deadmans out of his business while he goads Ikki to reveal that it was him who created him. Guess Daiji really wanted to be the protagonist. Another good episode, though I have to agree with everyone at this point that Vice is starting to just become dead weight.

Now, I can tolerate him, though he is starting to feel wasted at this point, having almost no solo victories and just showing up to make goofy quips. The problem, as everyone has pointed out, is that he's supposed to be a big part of Revice as main Rider No. 2, the Nigou if you would, and he's more like this self-insert joke character, which I don't mind too much, but after some of his one on ones with Ikki, it is rather disappointing. And we're not even past the first quarter yet!

There is still hope, as Reiwa, so far, has either gone from great start like Zero-One before slowly tanking (I know this was mostly due to the Plague, but still), to Saber which had a rushed start, then got better, depending on who you ask. So Revice could likely improve and give Vice a super form of his own and help him focus on being a star rather than a wannabe. But then again, we'll probably get Sakura as a Rider our first second quarter Rider and have a whole arc dedicated to her first. So let's just hope Vice will improve, because I'd hate to see such a brilliant idea for a Rider season go to waste.

Still absolutely love Demons.

Next Episode: Oh hey! It's the opening song!

Finally, Hiroya Matsumoto (Maji Yellow, Beet Buster) is now in Kamen Rider in this episode.

Not the first time actually, He was in Gaim's summer movie, Golden Fruit Cup as a walk on part alongside Juzo's actor (who was also Naoya Kaido in Faiz)

I think every character beside Ikki in this series is the manifestatation of Seven Deadly Sins,ex : Daiji/Kagero being Envy,Sakura seems to be associated with Wrath as she seems angry everytime she being shown in screen,George probably associated with Lust as he just randomly giving everyone driver for his own pleasure,Hiromi/Wakabayashi maybe associated with Pride and most obvious is Genta/Papa-san being associated with Sloth,for Gluttony i don't know but everyone seem pointing that Vice/Ikki is associated with Gluttony but personally i think Ikki/Vice is not the manifestation of Gluttony but instead the Seven Deadly Sins itself.

Note : sorry for my bad english

I had to pause the episode to look up the guest cast because I knew I’d seen that guy before.

I knew when I saw him and Mizuki's actress from Kiramager, I knew It was going to be a Sentai get together. I was surprised that It was Spada's actor that was the third one, barely recognized him.
That's the thing I like about Sakamoto, that he brings in actors that've done Toku shows.

I think some of these are kinda weak connections. Lust is specifically sexual pleasure, not just pleasure in general. Wakabayashi doesn't seem that prideful and while Hiromi was at the start, he's definitely over that now. I definitely wouldn't call Genta slothful or lazy since he's always doing stuff, whether it be working at the bathhouse, making videos or doing something with his family. Also, you forgot Greed

Also, despite the obvious "Sins-Demons" connection, the showrunner of the previous season loves the theme of the Seven Deadly Sins.

Huh. I like this idea. Not sure about George with lust. If anything, that could end up being the case with Aguilera

Have you seen the way George talked to Ikki's dad? The man is crawling with lust

Haha, only the talking part? George got real close to Genta at that onsen hotel!

I forgot to watch this last week, but since there is no new episode this week I guess it all evens out.

Nothing major in terms of character revelations this episode, but the conflict over potentially having to kill Daiji was interesting, as was Ikki's reaction to Kagerou's whole creation story. On the subject of Vice, I actually still like him, but I also liked Shunpei in Wizard so my opinion might not count for much. Since this whole arc seems to be drawing to a close though, I can't help but wonder what they plan to do next. I don't see a clear path for the next major story arc to take from here, so I wonder if we might get some slower episodic plots for a while? I wouldn't mind slowing down a bit personally.

I don't really find Vice annoying either. Sure his screen hogging can be irksome, but nothing major.

My English is not very good and Japanese is very bad, so for me all his humor is mostly background noise. Their conversations with Ikki and his role as a partner / device are good, but I think it would not hurt Vice to slightly reduce his talkativeness.

So... Finally watched the episode and... Do the writers have any faith in their audience? Like, any at all? The only way they could be more obvious with anything is put signs everywhere stating exactly what they try to say...

Like... Wow...

Anything they want to "imply" is either stated outright, or lampshaded so heavily you'll get a sunburn!

Sister is feeling powerless? Let's linger ages on her, let George imply she has a demon and with that immense personal conflict and let her state that "Does power make you happy?" Like, come on, the only way you can make it more obvious where she's headed and feeling is if you let her state it outright.

And Vice does exactly that for Ikki. Every bit of subconscious thoughts gets blurted out through him. There is no implication, no ambiguity, we always know what Ikki is thinking without tempering it by the logical side of his brain. And it sucks sooooo much.

This entire show feels so surface level and dull, spoonfeeding every bit of information to you, which will just make every twist feel like an "of course" then a "wait, what!?"

Like... I don't think a Rider show has made me feel this unengaged with itself so early on. This almost feels like Boukenger, a show I hate with a passion for how aggressively average und boring it felt... That is not a good sign for this show...