Kamen Rider Revice Episode 21- "Take My Life, Entrust My Feelings!" Discussion
 

A battle erupts over the Demons Driver while Sakura learns a disturbing secret about some recurring customers.

Thrown off a cliff off-screen

My man's not dead :lol

Probably the most pathetic "death" scene I've ever seen.

Like at least make it look good or semi-believable. That was pretty bad tbh.

I wouldn't be shocked one bit if the plan was always going to be Otelca become Demons (would explain why it was a premium bandai because most evil riders who don't debut right away are pbandai releases)

So Sakura would end up joining Weekend and Genta has a connection to Giff!

Was hoping Hiromi’s life gets absorbed into the Demons Driver. That’s disapponting. But could he return a demon?

Looking forward to in 20 episodes when Hiromi is turned into a cyborg and transforms into Mad Demons or something equally silly.

As a Revice episode, it's fine. It sets up some stuff that will be looked upon in the future. As something that's supposed to be part of a 'Hiromi Trilogy' or Hiromi arc, makes it pretty weak. Hiromi has little lines here and doesn't do much in the way of important things other than being thrown off a cliff, which I kinda have to agree with ZeroEnchiladas is pretty weak. He doesn't even say anything noteworthy to warn the siblings about FENIX. The siblings scream for him but no indication that they went to search for the body or if the body went missing. I guess they didn't really want to do much effort considering everyone knows already he'll be back :lol

I hate, no, I loathe Orteca so much. And that's a good thing, he deserves no redemption and has to die. He's not the kind of villain where I cheer every time they come on and be complete douches (Gai, Isaac, early Horobi), but he's the kind where I grit my teeth each time he comes on screen. I was definitely mad when he started using more than one stamp at a time and calling himself as the official Kamen Rider Demons.

The Weekend still look silly for me to take them seriously yet. Maybe if Hikaru puts on a belt :lol . Daiji continues to be less than useless, maybe once that Hiromi is gone he can start doing something. It's super odd that the Giff statue apparently causes a reaction on Devils but Kagerou and Lovekov are weirdly absent in all of this.

So one thing I like is the little bit of Vice being the saddest about Hiromi's death. Hiromi is probably the closest Vice has to a friend. Hiromi called out to Vice for assistance a couple of times and casually bantered with him during the Kagerou arc, a time in which Ikki hasn't completely trusted Vice yet. So, it was pretty neat to see this detail. I do hope they do something with it, maybe during the Jaaku Revice arc. Vice would repeatedly become irrational in trying to defeat Orteca to avenge Hiromi. Jaaku Revice would do good in having it so that Vice has his own motivations, wants, and needs apart from being an extension of Ikki.

https://i.imgur.com/GJCBK72.png

I really like This Episode TBH this is the most "Everything goes wrong episode can get" and i think making Hiromi going off cliff is the most safetest route can get for Him...
Sakura is very savage to aquliera Lol

And Olteca Goddamn he probably the Example how Brainy green Villain should do... i always have problem with Brainy Villain like gremillin or Storius because i know they scheming something but its always feel like asspull to me due they not very active like 10-20 episodes before at very end...

Olteca in other hand once he is not with Aqulera and Tamaki he is Very active and very despicable and Very hateful which is very good thing IMO.. looking forward for KR demons olteca

Next Episode is very worrying tho its very tonal whiplash and very weird episode to debut a new from too.. i hope its not very bad

ah the classic 'falling off a cliff'....
hope when Hiromi comes back...its not so he can die for real later on...

Hiromi could've been more specific when warning Daiji. How hard would've been to say something along the lines of "I saw the Director freeing Olteca. And Olteca gave him the Gifu stamp."

Also you know what've been neat to see? When Otleca transformed into Demons they could've used the alternate unused version of the Henshin sound.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ufqd8...ature=youtu.be

I think a lot of the show is starting to come together for me now. I think one of the most interesting aspects of the show for me right now is how the 3 main Riders seem to all be getting pulled in different directions. Daiji still holds some loyalty to Fenix, Weekend is trying to recruit Sakura, and Ikki seems to be trying to take more of a middle ground. It could all play out quite interestingly in the future. I do agree that Hiromi often feels like he is getting the short end of the stick even when he is supposed to be getting major focus, so I'm hoping whenever he comes back (no way he's dead yet) he is handled a bit better. Olteca is a hugely hateable villain in the best way, there was once again a good scene with Tamaki and Aquilera, and it seems like Gifu is going to be revived soon. Really pleased with this one overall in spite of a few gripes.

This one did a pretty fantastic job as this massive turning point for the overall story. You've got a ton of momentum being generated for loads of characters, whether it's as huge as the shifts in the show's big organizations, or as small as Sakura pointing out how Aguilera has basically completely lost any real drive to do anything by this point.

Plus, Olteca continues to just be the worst. Indeed, he's the best at being the worst! "Fun" isn't ~exactly~ the right word for how it felt seeing him as Demons, but it's neat how many aspects of this worked out the way they did. That belt just plain sounded evil, from day one, but because we've gotten to know Demons as not only a hero, but THE most straightforward, classic hero in the series, it adds this great layer of cruelty to seeing that identity be corrupted into something evil, even though being a bad guy is clearly what Demons was made for to begin with.

I'm also still nodding in approval of how much the show is finding the space to emphasize how Ikki and Vice are legitimately Buddies by this point, what with Ikki's genuine concern for Vice's pain throughout this one. (Like, remember the first two episodes? We've come a long way in half a show!) Thanks to the merchandise reveals and scans, I already have some fairly clear ideas of why the show is doing this right now, and where it's all going, and I'm excited to see that play out.

As a Hiromi episode, I mean, I stand by calling it a two-parter last week, even if this is still the same block of episodes by Mouri and Sakamoto. This one definitely doesn't hold up that great viewed through that specific lens, but I don't think it's fair to get caught up on that when the episode clearly isn't trying to put him in the spotlight anymore. It's hard to believe that "death" is anything other than deliberately unconvincing. Which, granted, you could say hurts the drama, but again, there are plenty of other plot threads here that are making up for that bit of weakness.

Like others have mentioned, this ep felt a little weak on Hiromi's end. Hiromi's last words make me wish Daiji's and Hiromi's dynamic was fleshed out a bit more, they really felt like coworkers and nothing more, which is a little..boring? Considering his last words were said to him, and Daiji's reaction is to Hiromi "dying" is the one they linger on, I can tell the show wants me to feel something about their dynamic, but they haven't developed it at all.

Oh well! The show is running at full speed towards the siblings siding with different factions, so I hope Daiji is taken off the bench and gets to do some more in the narrative. (Probably not next week though, bc we have both Neo Batta *and* a new fusion form for Ikki/Vice debuting?! I feel like Revice is absolutely burning through super forms.....)

What even is Olteca? His Giftex contract was dissolved, presumably turning him back in to a regular human. But Demons Driver like some kind of Sorting Hat says he smells like a devil. I already compared him to Doctor Nakadai last time, but maybe I was more right than I realized. Something is different about Olteca, which allows him to safely use the Demons Driver without any of the side effects, like how Nakadai's condition could negate the Dino Minder. Big speculation here, but he might be related to the Igarashis!

The fake Gif Stamp was really convincing since it had the same glowing red effect. Did Olteca make that himself? He's a self-proclaimed genius, so it's plausible that he would have the skills to do that. Only a devil can tell the difference. I don't like to see Aguilera so defeated, but turns out she hasn't lost anything of value. That stamp deceived her and now she can find motivation to do something more productive. Gif isn't worthy of her unrequited love. She deserves someone loyal like Julio who has always been by her side and actually cares about her welfare.

Yeah, I don't feel like this is the end for Hiromi either, since we haven't seen the body. But I also said that about Master Blue and Pink from Ryusoulger and I was completely wrong about that. Although that show does actively subvert cliches.

Considering Hiromi's popularity, with Kinoshita as well as fans, there's probably a lot more to his story yet. I feel like George knows on some level he did wrong by him and was willing to take that punch to make him feel better. He's a terrible friend, but maybe there is some mutual respect between them, as Hiromi's unable to bring himself to punch him. I want to see more of their turbulent relationship, whenever Hiromi returns.

I think Aguilera will turn herself around eventually. Tamaki is loyal to Aguilera. Just hope Sakura and her can start forming a strong bond in time before her timely death.

I could see vibes of Abare Killer in Olteca somehow. I thought of Abare Killer before that in a new rider. Maybe Olteca has a connection to Giff somehow.

George is seriously flip flopping in terms of I want to put him in the side of good or bad. Maybe he really doesn't belong anywhere.

He didn't come to Hiromi to laugh at him, just to see him off. Even remarking that it's for the best he leaves instead of dying. And I'm also pretty sure he was the one that set the ship into crashing to screw with Director Akaishi's schemes, he's the only one who would know how to do that and why else would he do that other than to sound the alarms.

I also wonder if he'll be a rider at all, it'd be actually interesting if he doesn't.

George:
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...des_Banner.jpg

Honestly I feel George is just going to end being a Kougami(Happy Birthday Guy from OOO) were always seems like he's going to turn out evil, but it turns out he's just really "eccentric" about his interests good or evil be damned.

I wanna know what Hiromi's demon looks like

A Spider with sharp teeth, Maybe has two legs, and the extra legs are on his chest, but opens to shoot a web? Maybe

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-90se5GvIxj...-spiderman.jpg
probably

Why would he demon be spider themed? That's just the Demons Driver, not his personal inner demon

It doesn't even seem like he has the usual personal demon the Igarashi's have anyway.

Given that accidentally activating the Rex Stamp on himself produced a Rex Deadman.

That would be fun concept he is at dead bed and then his real inner demon comes out.. and i am not talking about that Eps 1 inner demon i am talking about inner demon that like Vice, Lovekov and Kagerou

also there's a mysterious organization called Weekend (IDK how to just post a gif of the meme)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rha...ab_channel=NFL

I guess this episode should be the one to actually not feature the opening song, instead of the latest episode :p

So this episode starts to unravel the dark secrets behind Fenix, and that includes on how the new faction Weekend operates, which consists of the Ushijima family, located in the basement of their house (as well as Kimiko being the one to give Sakura Libera Driver). Everyone on Revice holds big secrets, and it seems to be how Revice keeps characters relevant, still you don't need to make anyone 'special' to make them relevant, for general writing. So all the sparring Hikaru and Sakura did before was set for a bigger picture, trying to recruit her to Weekend. Now I'm wondering if Hikaru genuinely sees Sakura as a friend here. Other than that, Sakura is subjected into a more brutal test of multiple masked men (Ka-men) fighting her, but man, those masked men should've waited for Sakura to take off her shoes first before attacking (as per Asian house standards, I mean there are good reasons for that to be done). Sakura denies affiliation with Weekend, but she did one of their missions by retrieving Giff ViStamp from Aguilera. Does that mean she did it on her own volition? Then it'd be good, though dunno if she had grown past of justifying pragmatic methods pre-Jeanne.

The dark secrets behind Fenix, so far according to Weekend it's about investigating Giff coffin despite that it's a dangerous move, but by that it seems that it's more about certain members of the Fenix being bad instead of Fenix as a whole? Albeit it's a higher up in Akaishi and George thus they'd be more influental in their schemes, but it's more like that if you remove the bad apples in Fenix then Fenix can properly function as a good organization, like removing corrupt cops in a police force for example.

The series doesn't drag upon Akaishi's identity as an apparent Deadman Founder, with him clearly shown to work together with Olteca here (and shows the difference of him to other Fenix members, who just captured Olteca). Akaishi also performed a stock evil laugh at the end of episode. With him being the Deadman Founder, he's apparently the real main antagonist of the series, not Aguilera, not Olteca too. Another misleading preview a KR series had to prominently feature the Deadman trio before. What's known about Akaishi here is also that he, at least what he claims against others, share similar goals as Prof. Karizaki (George's father), to separate humans from demons, and it's a goal that didn't work out really well; certain self-awakened inner demons can actually be a nuisance or even a threat to their hosts.

George too is teased as a "humans are the real monsters" by Vice, claiming that he's a human that is worse than demons (well technically a good number of humans are worse than Lovekov). He also had earned a contempt from Ikki as well for what he did to Hiromi. While he deflects the Hiromi subject from Ikki and Daiji, he's shown to be at least onboard with Akaishi's schemes and goals. Though in comparison George is better to Akaishi with a sliver of sympathy to Hiromi as he resigns, letting Hiromi punch him as well as claiming it's for the best regarding Hiromi's state (right after disposing him due to him being useless).

I'd talk about the good ones first for Hiromi, this episode proves that being a hero doesn't mean you have to henshin as Demons, no hero definition asked you to do that, and that Hiromi should acknowledge that. Hiromi performs the heroic deed by controlling the Fenix Skybase so it won't crash into the city and therefore saving everyone on board. There wasn't any fighting involved, albeit it still takes capabilities in a complex field, but still shows heroism isn't merely about fighting. Moreover as he resigned it's not his obligation anymore too to save the people inside. Otherwise, yeah his final scenes in this episode is handled poorly, half-assing in informing the important information to Daiji (while not showing enough of their dynamic), amateur shot from Olteca to Hiromi so he's only blown away to the nearby cliff (stock Rider death place, obviously not the end of him).... How he discovered Fenix' secret is also quite easy solution with Hiromi just passing by.

With Hiromi gone from Fenix, now Daiji's the major character that has affiliation to Fenix (unless Akemi's elevated into secondary heroine or such), with the story setting him up as being conflicted to Fenix. I hope this is the part where the story sets a definitive path for Daiji's character, and it being executed well of course, other than Daiji acting as mostly faithful soldier to do Fenix's tasks while helping his siblings in the process (though Daiji's never someone who's obsessively loyal to Fenix). Making the Igarashi siblings even more distinct with Sakura going on the opposing side, Daiji staying at Fenix while being conflicted, and Ikki acting more independent (but is now against Fenix) but trying to look for best case scenario.

The Giff coffin is established as giving side effects to Vice, and this episode upgrades the friendship between Ikki and Vice further, with Ikki releasing Vice just to check on him, out of concern. But despite the terrible thing that happened to Vice, it turns into how benefical Vice is to deduce that the Giff ViStamp Sakura retrieved was fake as it didn't cause any effect on him. Vice also later scans on how the Demons that fought Daiji (to Sakura's confusion) was Olteca, not Hiromi. So despite how despicable Olteca is, there are no Kusaka/Micchy situation in Revice, thanks to Vice! Genta suffers from the effects of Giff coffin as well, further establishing Genta's relation to him, his big secret.

The change that happened to Aguilera recently isn't redemption, just that it seems that her being put on more difficult position just makes character overall diminished. Now she's only about being obsessed with Giff (and revealing her goal previously as a parallel to Olteca, Giff related still). Previously she's established as being obsessed with Giff, but there's more on her like her persuasion and manipulating others to join Deadmans, her sinister side being covered by her childish cheery self, her warped worldview including how she views happiness, etc. Other than her lackluster battle results, I guess Sakura's criticism on her is a wake up call of the series itself to give Aguilera her multi-faceted parts back. I'd actually want to see if her development from here is to make her a more effective villain instead of redeeming her first.

Tamaki's put in a more difficult position of supporting 2 girls at once (asking Sakura to take care of Aguilera... but it can be opposing like this episode), and actually unknowingly made a deal to Sakura to hand her the Giff ViStamp... and with him being powerless at this moment.... it gives a comedic bit of him using pleading gesture to Sakura instead.

Olteca's scheme in this episode is simpler than I think, with him just exchanging items with Akaishi, him getting Giff ViStamp and Olteca getting Demons Driver. With Demons Driver claiming Olteca as smelling like a demon, now I wonder if Olteca actually had inner demon and that his previous Deadman form was a separate outside demon, or that the Driver refers to how evil and monstrous Olteca is. And with Olteca as Demons being strong enough to take on the 3 Igarashi siblings at once, now it just adds more mystery on the Demons Driver (other than to Hiromi), would Demons get stronger the more evil the user is (which'd make Hiromi the worst user as someone all about being heroic)?

What about Hiromi being someone that is dangerous to use Revice Driver, and that he had a demon that he can't control at the first episode? And if you criticize Ikki for being a busybody (also being reprimanded by Yukimi to think over for his actions), then Hiromi can be quite similar that he's a reckless and impulsive person.

Eh, I don't know where did you get that Aguilera's love for Giff is unrequited. Giff is now dormant and Aguilera's focused on bringing back Giff. So that means there's nothing known yet on how's Aguilera's time with Giff in the past. Or that you refer into the part of how Giff needs Aguilera as a sacrifice for the unrequited love part? And regarding Julio, how about the other Deadman members? Julio joining Deadman is just similar to anyone else who joined Deadmans, and that the members are apparently being "helped" (if it's how Julio views Aguilera as his savior) in short-term care (the enjoyment behind hedonism). It's not only Julio to Aguilera, and this doesn't concern Olteca, but at least Kanae Motomura is really loyal to Olteca and is eager to help him too.

Rex Deadman.

Yeah, the sacrifice part. If Gif reciprocated Aguilera's love, then he wouldn't be okay with his followers using her like that. But she was groomed for that purpose with the lie about becoming his wife, which is a lot easier to pitch. Especially to a toddler. Her love may be unconditional, since she's willing to die for him even after finding out she was deceived, but it's a toxic love, she's in denial about his true nature. It's sunken cost fallacy. Same goes for the other members who are willing to die for him without knowing Aguilera's true purpose, due to her being marketed as Deadmans' idol.

What's different about Julio, compared to the other members, is that he knows the truth and wants to return the favor for "saving" him, by trying to save her from her unhealthy obsession with Gif. With him being a former Giftex, he was always closer to her than the other members, so it makes sense that they would have the closest relationship and potential for romance.

The big reason I say Hiromi feels the most like a straightforward hero out of any of this show's Riders has a lot to do with how the writing of the series actively encourages the viewer to consider the idea that Ikki's heroism might have a selfish motivation behind it.

A lot of people have their own ideas about how exactly demons work in this show, and how that applies to Hiromi, but looking beyond the literal rules of the show's universe, narratively, I think it's hugely significant that all of the Igarashi siblings' Rider powers come from a demon born of the parts of their personality they try to reject (Vice is self-centered; Kagerou resents Ikki; Lovekov is weak), while Hiromi's powers come entirely from his Driver. The show so far has never presented Hiromi as having any complex layers hidden underneath the surface; he's a person who says he wants to be the hero he always wished would save him, and by all accounts, that earnest desire is legitimately all there is to him.

Not super relevant to the discussion, but I really like this about Revice, the fact the heroes have a tendency to be morally good but like personally grey if that makes senese. Like they're doing the right thing but the reasons for that are complex, and personal. I want to draw parallels between Ikki and Ryotaro from Den-o in that both will often in an attempt to be a hero invalidate other people's choices and decisions. I think that's really interesting. (this is also part of the reason I think Revice is probably better then Saber because it deal with not having the heroes be all good, but in an interesting way)

The ViStamps function as made by Prof. Karizaki was to awaken the inner demons inside the humans, which turns out that they can be nuisance or even a threat to them. But at least outwardly for now, Ikki is someone who is all of those 3; nice, well-meaning, unbiased, and didn't do anything morally ambiguous (for the latter 2, him both thinking of saving evil Giftex and trying to look for a solution to separate their Demons, that'd be the opposite of using dirty means to achieve one's goal), which'd mean he's not morally grey (including when he likely can have the ego but he'd try to not act upon it), he surely has mistakes and flaws, but not all mistakes or flaws are moral flaws (being overprotective is all noble and not actively damaging others - keyword actively). And Ryotaro making up with Momotaros in ep. 4 of Den-O is pretty much ep. 2 of Revice. R̶y̶o̶t̶a̶r̶o̶ ̶l̶i̶t̶e̶r̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶b̶o̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶.̶

Many of the secondary Riders are actually anti-heroes (morally grey heroes, anti-heroes are subcategory of heroes thus they'd do the right thing action-wise), but Daiji's so far actually one of the secondary Riders that isn't one. Daiji had the insecurity to Ikki but he never acted on it, at worst his outbursts was only acting like Ichijou, really takes his work seriously and calling others out that are unprofessional. Even when Daiji thinks the only solution is to kill Giftex and not separating them, he's (like Hiromi insisting for Ikki to stop Daiji) not boasting or gloating/mocking about it like many secondary Riders to primary Riders, it's more like Daiji being solemn facing the hard truth.

Sakura's actually the one that can have morally grey tendencies at least pre-Jeanne (she has sympathy to Aguilera but I don't feel like it's like Ikki to save Giftex in general), with her approving and agreeing with pragmatic and drastic measures others will take to achieve something like Bon or Seiko. By this Sakura may be made as the opposite to her 2 older brothers that, Sakura's the (at least pre-Jeanne) one that has her inner demon being better than the actual person; Lovekov is fully docile and harmless unlike her 2 older brother's demons.

So... overall, are the heroes here doesn't seem to be morally grey outwardly currently due to the ViStamp's effects which relegates most/all the negativity of Ikki or Daiji into their demons (so what I get currently is that the "morally good" and "doing the right thing" is about the siblings as a person, and the "personally grey" or "complex and personal" are about their demons which are currently separated)? And if there were no ViStamp effect.....Ikki as a person would be someone who is a narcissist that actively bugs or puts down others for their attention, and Daiji would be someone really vengeful and petty to others, or it'd be even worse than we thought about how those 2 will act? Or likely if future arc would have inner demons be merged again to the person....

Hiromi-Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!

Though to be fair, anyone want to bet Toei will pull some baloney and bring him back like "the fall wasn't fatal" or something? I don't know, just feels like something they'd do, especially with how his "death" plays out.

Anyway, I just want to bring up how much I loved the fight last episode where Revi and Vice cycle through all of their forms to trounce the Junias. Normally you see something like this in a movie, so it was great to see.

The FENIX Director always reminded me of Weather Dopant's host from W, so it doesn't surprise me he's actually evil. Though of course, now I wonder what the real goal is, given how everything's just bouncing around on what's really going on (either that or it's just me who's been having a hard time keeping up with this season). And now we've got Weekend, which sounds like a college club, who somehow seems even less trustworthy than FENIX, maybe they just don't like that Kamen Rider weeb trying to create his own in-universe dream Kamen Rider series.

It may no longer be Hiromicchi, but at least Demons will carry on, and I love that Kenjiro Suda voices that demon.

Next Episode: Not gonna lie, Jaaku Revice is my favorite powerup form of the series (the Rider Genomes don't count).