Kamen Rider Revice Episode 28- "Beyond Fear, Gale & Thunder!" Discussion
 

Vice escapes and loses control without Ikki to reign him in.

Tonight features the debut of Kamen Rider Revice (you’d think that would be episode 1)

this exactly

Goodbye Orteca, you were fun to hate. Hayata Seki did good

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO0QUnxX...pg&name=medium

Hiromi is back in the show, as a picture frame

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...08/unknown.png

Damn it feels kind of early saying goodbye to Olteca because it was easy to dislike the guy with his cocky actions...I hope the next villian(s) can match his level of despicableness whether it be Vail or Gifu finally

Now, all they have to do is not turn him into a rider.

https://i.imgur.com/ppysUiL.png

Gifu is absolutely going to turn into a new marketable villain with a P-Bandai toy at some point. It is an unavoidable fate...

Anyhow, a cool, satisfying and narratively-driven debut is all it takes for me to warm up to a new form, but I'm still confident in saying Thunder Gale (just calling it 'Revice' is too awkward) could still probably look better? Up until now, it just doesn't really look like anything to me? I don't think the design does a good enough job of tranlating the idea of being a combination of Revi and Vice (I wish it looked more properly 'four eyed' instead of using Vice's eyes as horns), and maybe it could use a few more lightning bolt decals... But! It's so flashy and in-your-face, and hearing the two speak in unison is cool, so I expect to warm up even more in no time.

Bye Olteca! I think he had a decent run as a villiain but this is probably the perfect time for him to go down for good, since I think the show has run it's course with what there is to do with him. As for the rest of the (former) Deadman trio, I have like, zero ideas of what the plan for Aguilera and Tamaki could be and I kiiiinda suspect that as of right now, there actually isn't any plan on the writers' part, but here's hoping they don't take as long to find a purpose as Dezast did last year ^_^;

You know, with the classic Showa posing, I was thinking it would be Ichigou inspired, until I remembered I already knew what Revice looked like, and it looks like trash.

Even in motion, still looks awful. Also, kind of sick of super forms providing super speed.

I honestly preferred Elemental Dragon's debut over Thunder Gale's. Both in design and overall way to get the form. Yes, yes, call it bias however you want! It's how I feel!

Thunder Gale still just looks awful to me, and I quite didn't buy the part where Ikki says Vice was 'protecting' Ikki from the trauma of the fire. I didn't see him do that. Also, Elemental Dragon just has a far better jingle, especially with that guitar.

Meanwhile Touma made peace with the Primitive Dragon to achieve the form. Oh well.

The real highlight of the episode was the brief time with George as Demons and also getting to see the bits of the Giff suit. I still love the eldritch monster angle they're going with it, so I like that one.

This image alone should explain why I liked George's temporary run as Demons hahaha. I'm still holding out for him to reconcile with Hiromi down the line.

https://i.imgur.com/cmPKWSA.jpg

Not feeling how this turned out at all and the Revice suit is absolute trash. It looks awful. They could’ve done something really amazing with this one but it is just the worst.

The Rider 1 tribute is really neat though, I didn't get that the Thunder Gale ViStamp is essentially the Typhoon's turbine and the classic Rider poses were great, but that's about it.

The drama didn't work for me either which sucks because so far Ikki and Vice had amazing interactions, but this just didn’t work out. Mostly because there was no Vice and Ikki was essentially alone.

I don’t know, Revice is kind of meh since the Vail debut IMO? Like, not bad, but it could be a lot better. Probably because Vail cleared up so many mysteries but the show has done nothing in the aftermath of that to really establish a new standard for itself yet, which I hope happens now.

Weĺl i don't like Thundergale as much The Elemental dragon but at least Thundergale have better context and Kinda Cool fight scenes...

TBH i don't know where This show gonna be Olteca which is Very Major Villain in this series just dead now... i think we will enjoy moment of peace for a bit

this is a mixed bag can we please stop with the mid season upgrade makes the MC go crazy he needs to something to control it trend it was good at first but like many things that bother me with rider shows these days it became OVERDONE (Plus I feel like the Revice fusion should have been saved for the final form (if it's a repaint I'm gonna be pissed) (Honestly feel like Saber EVEN THEN did it better because it was something Touma had to earn instead of Ikki and Vice having a misunderstanding)

sadly your right

Sadly The trend of beserk--> controlled state never been good even at Build IMO but build saved because the design
I think Ikki and Vice just re affrim their friendship... and i like these Chara but sadly We already know this since Barid-Volcano form so this is feel like repitition and No Thoma IMO is not better too just meeting random Kid that not even a chara and just forgoten and only coming back doing asspull at final Episode

Gosh, I didn't realise until now just how blatantly Thunder Gale is just Elemental Dragon again for the second year in a row, huh. The mid-season new merch which is the second of a two-part power-up, the first of which made the hero go on a rampage. A combination of two entities and obtaining power from their bond. Looks kinda ugly.

That said, I really hope the next power-up is not Repaint Rex...

That's the movie form.

The final form will be Revi wearing Vice's armor and vice versa :Lol

When did George become less morally ambiguous? I know he became more 'heroic' starting a few episodes ago but it feels a bit rushed.

Also, Giff slapping Aguilera was both pitiful and hilarious. I genuinely did not see that coming.

Okay, I concede. Not all my theories can come true. In a way, I guess it's symbolic that Olteca was used by Gif until the end. A similar tragedy I can think of here would be Kyuranger Episode Stinger, for how some people can be deceived by an evil group claiming to be their savior and they're denied the chance to break away from that life. Olteca's flashbacks with Aguilera and Julio, I wonder if he realized what he had too late? So now the true devil is Gif, who's not the wonderful god of hedonism Aguilera thought he was. So far, Gif has only brought misery.

But I'm still left with questions about Olteca's place in the lore. Like we know now he has no apparent biological connection to Gif like the Igarashis do. Yet Vail said, in a very foreshadow-y way, that he smelled like a devil. What the hell even was Olteca this whole time?!

Revice's debut seems to be taking cues from Ghost Mugen Damashii's climactic fight against Adel's Ganmaizer form, with Ikki even copying the line, "[x], the things you've done are unforgivable". I'm not sure it carries the same emotional weight though, considering how Ikki spent most of this episode processing his feelings about Vice instead. There's nothing in that line alone that says how Ikki actually feels about Olteca. It feels redundant. His other line, "we're not devils, we're Revice", would make sense, if this wasn't a show which has Dealing With The Devil as its main premise.

A debut I do love though is the new Demons! A big Kamen Rider fan like George was pretty much always destined to become a Rider himself. But it's even more appropriate that he gets to be Demons specifically, since it's a symbolic way of honoring Hiromi's sacrifice and his Kamen Rider spirit. Choosing to fight instead of watching from afar.... That was Hiromi's way of life as well. So it's nice to see George take that moral seriously here as he proudly declares his intention to fight Gif.

It does, but I like to think that in some way he still cares for his riders anyway, and his moral shift only went around once he pieced together why the Igarashis were so in tune to his rider systems. Got him to reevaluate what mattered.

Still, I'd love for them to try and fix up his relationship with Hiromi.

I liked this episode overall in spite of some rough spots. George's Rider debut was surprisingly cool, I rather liked Ikki's whole battle in his own mind, and I'm excited to see where the show goes next. Heck, I even love the awful, gaudy Thunder Gale form! It reminds me of Ex-Aid, which I always loved for its absurd visual design. That being said, I do agree with a lot of the people in this thread that parts of the episode seemed... off. I still think there needs to be some acknowledgement that early on Ikki and Vice were really not in tune, which really makes me doubt Vice's intentions towards Ikki were fully altruistic when Ikki was a child. I regularly have this issue with Revice as a show, I can really get into a lot of aspects of it but there are often small details that just take me out of the experience.

I think Thunder Gale works better in movement, where it's not always just standing still.

That being said, I've mostly come here to say that George is a fake Rider Fan. He didn't call out "Henshin" before transforming.

The Demons suit is just too good.

You know, funnily enough, Revice's design is maybe the only thing I like about Revice?

Like, I was actually so relieved when I saw people going "huh, thought they'd save that for the final form", because that made me realize they're going to have to do something else for the final form, and I'll probably find it more interesting. A fusion between Revi and Vice is just not actually as big a deal as it might sound like at first, between the Remixes, the brilliant way Jack Revice has been either of them and neither of them, depending on the episode, and just... the overall narrative of the show maybe not feeling like it needs that Thunder Gale Stamp all that much?

I'm going to very blunt about this in a way that will sound more cruel than I want it to -- I think this show is hitting a point of diminishing returns on climactic scenes of Ikki acknowledging how much Vice's existence means to him. It's not bad here at all, but I'm not sure it felt like any new revelation or growth for either of their characters actually happened. I've seen this before, and to be blunt again, I liked it best with Volcano Rex. Both the internal drama in those episodes, and the way that form represented Revi and Vice working in unison by being different, rather than by literally being the same guy. Embracing conflicting aspects as diametrically opposed as fire and ice, and harnessing that power for good? It just felt super poignant for this show, what can I say?

Well, I could start by saying some nice things about this episode, because, again, I swear it was pretty good, in spite of my gripes! I mean, that Revice suit alone obviously puts it way up there. Look at all the colors! Look at all the pointy bits! Go ahead and tell me it looks dumb and garish; I'll just tell you "that's why I like it!"

Less superficially though, I really enjoyed how this episode was put together. The direction for all the scenes involving Ikki is just 1000% Ishida, with all the crazy lighting and angles, and that did wonders to elevate that stuff.

...

Wait, hang on, that might be all the praise I've got? Like, this one was completely inoffensive, beyond a few nitpicks, but I'm trying to think of parts that legitimately impressed me enough to talk about, and the best I came up with was "episode 18 of Revice sure was great!" I don't know if that says more about my feelings on Revice, or Revice itself, or what, but, uh, yeah, surprisingly downbeat post from me this week! Sorry about that!

I didn't even like it in Build because that whole arc was literally a rehash of Kachidoki's 2 parter from Gaim

Yeah I agree I like the idea of Vice betraying Ikki and getting a form from rehooking up but this should have been an ultimate form (PLEASE NO SIMPLIFIED FINAL FORM OR REPAINT) and Revice is also starting to develop a nasty habit of cutting arcs that they could have gotten the entire season out of short (See Daiji vs Kagero)

Honestly I liked this week episode but according to the next episode preview we're just going to have some kind of filler.

Also, it was nice to see George do a sort of Kuuga Henshin, and that new form for Revice combined Ichigo and Nigo's henshin hand gesture. That's a nice nod to the series as a whole.

But yeah, next week being a filler might not be so bad...let's just hope that we won't get stuck in the "filler/arc that is too long" trope that we got with Zero-One and Thouser >.>

I'm assuming it's one episode, which is why I'll make the bold claim that most of the footage we see in this trailer is only half the runtime. Because it seems Reiwa Rider tradition is that after attaining the true Super/Mid-Point form, there's a mandatory breather/clip-show episode.

Happened after Metal Cluster got under control, happened after Elemental Dragon's debut.

After 50 years of laying dormant, Giff has finally awakened! What evil will be unleashed upon the world? Will he turn Earth into his own personally Hell to rule? The numbers of ideas are endless!
https://kamenrider.fandom.com/wiki/F...ffTrueForm.png

Simplified final forms is the future

https://i.imgur.com/98YZUrb.jpg

Will Giff take on a human form of his own? Wonder what he looks like behind that mist?

Any Showa villain tribute?

I hate for it to be that future.

Good episode overall.

The best things from this episode is George henshin and George meeting with his father.

I like final forms that are not over the top like we got during the second phase of the Heisei era.

If the Final form "simplified" means more like Zero two then Yes please but if its like Cross saber then No...

Because there is difference between Simple and Just a Repaint... the New Weapon for Final form is cool tho...

Final form is gonna pull a Build Genius and just have vistamps all over his body.

The show is called Kamen Rider Revice, but the eponymous Rider has never appeared... until now, takes 28 episodes to do so (albeit the super form is called Revice but with an added 'Jack'). And this is the end of the 2nd arc, but so does Olteca (with Seki Hayata getting flowers) who turned out to only acted as a villain of 1 arc...

There's surprisingly a parallel made up between Ikki and Olteca here (albeit it's obvious that Ikki had the most hatred to Olteca before for good reason, burning himself while using Volcano Rex for example, and declaring him as unforgivable with the lines he crossed), with Olteca's fighting scene against George and Igarashis transitioning into Ikki's confrontation with Vice, as well as Olteca trying to pull out not so different remark on Revice and even... the flashbacks of Olteca being together with other Deadman trio in his demise. Though the latter 2 did nothing to make Olteca look better as Ikki and Vice aren't devils (.. but Revice) and thus isn't the same as piece of shit like Olteca merging with Giff, this quite throws the usual Kamen Rider sthick of hero and villain having similar source/type of power, but it shows it doesn't matter what type of power they use, what matters is the morality of the person and how the power is used, power merely enhances the impact of what they do, if they're evil they can cause worldwide damage, if they're good they can save people from big threats. And for the Deadman trio flashbacks, of course it's Olteca calmly stating that his world domination goal failed, seeing his former allies as something to further that goal.

Otherwise, so my theory previously about Olteca's end being near, like someone such as Sid in Gaim, is actually true. He's only a main antagonist wannabe overall. Just that previous irredeemable villains that are wannabes too like Asakura (who also held a kid at gunpoint) or Kitazaki got their demise at the end of the series instead of middle, which leaves me thinking if Olteca's death happened too fast, if there are still more things they can explore regarding him, like his ambiguous nature if he's human or not (in how Vail smells him, or if Vail refers to his sociopathic nature), or also the Deadman trio's feelings (not mourning, mind you) of what their former ally has become/crossed especially Aguilera's decision to team up with him again (or that's saved for next ones).

Granted though, Olteca's threat has diminished lately with his threat depending on what Vail does (leaving or returning), and then Demons with triple Genomixes being overwhelmed by Holy Live, and despite being the first to reach Phase 4 in Anomalocaris Deadman, at the end of the day, he's only a mere human after he's separated from Giff, so it's plausible to assume he's dying soon. Other than that it's great though that they don't redeem Olteca, keeping him being the worst that he is until his death, and his death too was a karmic one, he spent his time sacrificing a bunch of people for his own benefits, then he ended up becoming the final sacrifice for Giff, w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶'̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶S̶c̶i̶s̶s̶o̶r̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶O̶u̶j̶a̶,̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶R̶y̶u̶k̶i̶.

With Giff reclaiming his true form this early, it seems that Giff is someone more similar to Ark from Zero-One, who acts as a primary antagonist (albeit Ark wasn't the final fight of Zero-One), instead of someone that existed primarily as a final boss for the Riders to fight like Arch Orphnoch (who killed the aformentioned Kitazaki), Sigma, or Gamedeus (for KR Chronicle). Other than Vail and Olteca's demise, the other antagonists here are still given setups.

• Aguilera trying to reach out to Giff as he more and more acts on his own, only to get (funnily) slapped by him after it seems that Giff is caressing her face which likely shattered Aguilera's delusion of Giff being her love (this is the only scenario that can advance Aguilera's character, Sakura trying to get her away from Giff won't do anything).
• Tamaki continuing his loyalty to Aguilera (finally his portrayal isn't being a comic relief punching bag here).
• Akaishi still not acting much and only praising Daiji (as well as a setup for Daiji curing Fenix from its corruption).
• Giff getting resurrected.

So I can't evaluate them properly here.

However, I don't quite have a faith of how Revice would handle them (partially the reason Olteca may better stay), given their current track record of them like Kagerou before, and including Ikki fighting himself in this episode if Vice can qualify here (more on that below). Vail was the twist that is done really well before, and actually had him being more fleshed out with good build up using Hiromi and is well-written regarding his conflict with the Igarashis, compared to the others, and so far I only saw Vail as the real potential of being a compelling antagonist (and there's also a setup for Genta, him recovering all of his memories with Buu-san helping him as well as temporarily leaving his family).

Ikki's fight with himself involves him waking up in a surreal version of Happy Spa, with his family members acting weird, the more serious Daiji and Sakura instead childishly playing with a plane and stuffing her face with huge foods (in both size and quantity) respectively, and Giftarians taking a bath in the onsen and seductively inviting him to join. That might be some comedy material, but it's left insignificant in the long run, as the next 2 confrontations didn't touch any of the weirdness in the Happy Spa in his head; the first confrontation being Vail facing off Ikki (unless Vail made that version of Happy Spa in Ikki's head to psyche out Ikki).

Like I said above, as a yandere for Genta, Vail's threat to Ikki is done well and is more than just both fighting it out, as he knows there are more of someone he can target with, Vail tried to mind rape Ikki to crush his hopes that his family can be normal and happy, due to how all of them are devils too (of which it's used against Olteca instead), and tried to convince him to leave the family instead.

Of course, this won't work as he.. Vailed to notice what does Ikki actually want, he had made himself suffer constantly before (y'know, like ep. 2 to let himself die when Vice won't comply for instant), thus his persuasion doesn't work albeit Vail is still confident of his power to dispose the Igarashis, which kinda reminds me of Gaim too in Redyue (who also uses illusions for that) trying and failing to convince Kouta to give up saving people due to how he's going to be hated, but not being hated isn't really what Kouta aims thus it failed.

The second one being Ikki fighting Vice within himself, of which Vice gains Ikki's head too. Outside of Vice looking more silly as Ikki like a cheap cosplay, the quality of the writing here isn't better either. There's Vice beating Ikki up physically, but then it's merely about Ikki remembering the time he and Vice spent, and declaring to be Vice's protector, then then fighting back by slashing Vice. And... that's it. It's significantly more flat of a conflict as well as the resolution, compared to the previous Ikki and Vice interactions. What are Vice's thoughts and feelings there? What's in his mind as he beats Ikki up there despite that they're buddies since ep. 13? Even what's the explanation between Vice now having Ikki's head, despite that Vice is recognized as another Ikki even before literally having same head?

And as no way Vice was killed after Ikki slashed him (but it's the moment that had Ikki back as Revice), also what causes Vice to stop his beating of Ikki there and make up with him for the eponymous Revice's debut? I guess this is a prime example (at least to me) of how a tokusatsu won't be complete with the suits or fighting alone, the mere surface, but the characters and stories matter more instead of people fighting in silly colorful costumes, of which the Ikki and Vice conflict here is about the fighting only mostly (and not that much of it too), albeit the character part is highlighted one-sidedly in Ikki, but still won't be enough with his monologue alone.

This episode features the 3rd user of Demons, which is George. Character-wise here, though I stopped making good assumptions about George since his mostly callous disposal of Hiromi and working with Akaishi even at his 'helpful' moments later (reverting Ikki back after Jack Revice's debut, and the characters like Vice also distrusted him), I guess for this one, George and his concern to the Igarashis (other than refering Sakura as karate girl) is really about him genuinely becoming more good, albeit it's not about him never being bad before, instead it's him developing to be a better person (at least to the Igarashis), likely he did after learning about Igarashi's backstory, or about his conflict with his father (surpassing him and not immediately forgiving him) being about him not being pleased to his father's actions instead of him seeing his father as an obstacle in his goals.It's also good for Masumi's wish for George to not become like him. Other than that, it shows Sakura being fully aligned with Weekend, and offering support to even Masumi or hoping for the Karizakis to make up for the sake of beating Giff.

He had some resemblance to Kuroto before in praising himself or being petty (either conflict to Vice or reaction to outside ViStamp presence), but regarding his father, it's not like Kuroto at all, who framed Masamune for his own benefit. He even learns from Hiromi too, whose Kamen Rider ideals he previously mocked despite being a KR fanboy, to believe more and take action, as being a bystander who just talks big, especially for someone as capable as George (not an average joe who only can be a bystander) would be a waste, more than mocking Hiromi's tenacity to keep fighting as futile. It's likely time for him to finally grasp the true spirit of Kamen Rider franchise, instead of being a superficial KR fanboy; only liking the violence, suit design, and powers, but his actions before being the opposite of KR spirit, manipulating others for his own goal as well as pursuing power without considering morality.

While his alignment may change for good here, he was never an average scientist like he claims, with how he works out and holding his own to Olteca, and it's used to a great effect here, with him using Demons spectacularly, using tricks like webbing Jack Revice around (being the one to resemble Spider-Man the most in fighting), as well as cause physical damage to Olteca (before he regenerates), only being stopped by his Driver's limit.

George may've been impressive against Olteca, but don't know if it's actually Olteca's Phase 4 form (or hell, Giff) being less impressive than what's expected too. It's definitely stronger than Demons with triple Genomix though, as how it beats Holy Live who beats said Demons before. While Olteca does have Giff's regeneration as well as him boasting about it, it may also seem that Olteca had mediocre durability to have attacks from any others including Jeanne cause damage (also parts falling off from Holy Live) to show off the regeneration. Though to be honest, I don't think that Olteca's debut as Demons before had really impressive showings either albeit his Demons is clearly stronger, unless they purposely wanted to make Olteca not much above the heroes with them still being able to push around and fight him off for a bit.

Either of Olteca's debut as the bigger fish (Demons, Anomalocaris) wasn't as impressive as the likes of Ark's debut or something, but by this I hope that wasn't the best of what Giff can do. After all, it's not even final form debut yet, Revice is an upgraded super form. so it'd be similar to Build RabbitRabbit & TankTank for Build equivalent (and Jack Revice kinda looked like Build Hazard, with also berserk side effects). But by that Revice's design looks worse I agree, with too flashy and contrasting color scheme. Though I'd say Revice's performance is more impressive than Olteca's to other Riders, I'd also think the thunder gale theme is also quite random, and unrelated to what's already established before, with Revice having prehistoric motif and previous Riders (and George's still the one to give the Thunder Gale ViStamp..). Volcano Rex does have elemental power in fire and ice, but it's prehistoric related in ice age and as per its namesake, volcanoes being a frequent presence in dinosaur-related themes.

Does any one else feel Thunder Gale is kind of treading old water? This is like the third time Ikki and Vice have had to accept they are one. Honestly I liked it when it was theorized Vice was the embodiment of Ikki's resentment towards his family after giving up his dream of being a soccer player. Now that it's been revealed Vice has been around Ikki since childhood, it makes a lot of earlier moments of Vice's antagonism feel really out of place.

As for Thunder Gale, on top of not being good to look at, it doesn't really even feel like an upgrade. Unlike other upgrades, there is no connectivity between the Rolling Vistamp and Thunder Gale Vistamp. Maybe it's supposed to be like like a Zi-O Trinity situation, where it's an another Super Form. At the very least if past forms are anything to go by we won't have to see this form for much longer before it's replaced.

I Don't want that either

this is his super form so we probably will until June

It’s pretty much two part forms like shiny hopper or elemental dragon even gaim final form and more. Except is done twice here from ice form to volcano. Now it’s the paint roller to electricity. Rumors did say the final form will do away the old driver. Don’t know if it means ghost super form getting his own driver or a big 01 to 02 attachments. People did remove the stamp plate from the toy driver last year during reviews.

Could be just me not keeping up with this series as much as I'd like, but Vice has improved immensely, and that makes me happy.

Seriously, nothing against this show, I just need better scheduling, since it's been getting really good. Revice doing the Ichigo pose made my day!

Thunder Gale Revice isn't bad design wise, but it could really use some more colors, since the lack of anything but bright yellow (maybe it's a reference to Zero-One, I don't know, no point in connecting dots), but as mentioned before, the Ichigo pose, the turbine on the stamp, is just such a great idea for this form, though we're likely going to get another form or two later.

But my gosh, the cinematography and atmosphere this episode felt like something you'd see in the Ultra series to me, during that inside Ikki's head sequence, it was such a good scene(s). Really liked the visual flair.

And George has now fulfilled his dreams as a Kamen Rider! Boy, he was a lot of fun to watch, and him shouting a bunch of Engrish made it better. He almost reminds me of an older Peter Parker, and I love it! And the family reunion that came earlier than expected, but looks like it will lead to some interesting developments.

RIP Olteca (unless Gifu decides to use his appearance when he gains more power), hugs for Aguilera (unless Gifu suddenly changes his mind and accepts her later, which I feel is possible), more hugs for Julio (back to the bowl cut, I see), cheers for Buu-San (the surprise hero), and cheers for Vice becoming corporeal (gotta say how much I liked Ikki and Vice conversing in Weekend's basement). I'm also really looking forward to how Daichi moves forward with FENIX and how he plans to deal with the bossman.

Next Episode: Let's make a movie for the best boy, Hiromi-San! Who wants to bet this is the episode/arc he returns.