Kamen Rider Revice Episode 33- "LovKov's Rebellion!" Discussion
 

Sakura's powers are out of control as her heart struggles.

Well past me... looks like we were right! Glad to see Revice decided to go for the Hero-San and Former General-San (Superwomen in Love! Honey Trap and Rapid Rabbit) route.

Lovekov is the best.

I'm glad things worked out and now Aguilera can join Tamaki in just being one more character who stands around doing nothing from now on. ...Okay, that's kind of a reductive way of putting it, but I thought this episode was fine! Everything played out exactly how I'd expect it to, but it was done decently and all the actors' performance was good.

Meanwhile the other villains who have been in the background start coming out into the foreground. I gotta say, the Fenix chief guy is basically like Solomon from Saber in being a cartoonishly evil guy with zero depth, but... I dunno, I so far find him a lot more fun than I did Solomon? He's so hammy and so ridiculous, but in a way that's juuust barely more subtle than the usual cackling lunatic in these shows. Him brutalising Daiji with his like, five different superpowers is both incredible and hilarious.

I prefer Isaac over Akaishi, desu. It's really hard to take him seriously and the way he just leaves Daiji (and even Akemi) alive was eh. I know that Daiji is a protagonist and shouldn't die, but I'd take Daiji getting out of there as opposed to Akaishi leaving him just 'cause.

Isaac at least was thwarted in his attempts to kill someone, and not to mention, very memeable.

https://i.imgur.com/heWahbZ.png

I believe in Akaishi's meme potential too! When he laughs, I can't help but want to laugh as well.

I liked that aquarium scene where Julio suggested to Aguilera that they should make some memories together, it was a sweet gesture.... I really wish the episode had ended there.

So with Julio being ineffectual as usual, my only other hope (and expectation) was that Aguilera would at least get the honorable battle to the death she wanted. But nope! This isn't a show where side characters get what they want. Olteca doesn't get to be understood, Julio doesn't get the girl, Aguilera doesn't get a dignified exit, but Sakura gets a new trophy to show off to the other Weekenders.

At least Akemi's still alive, even though she's in a pretty terrible situation here.

There were several alternative outcomes where this episode could have salvaged something, but instead it followed the worst case scenario I imagined and now, sadly, I don't even have the motivation to see what's next. Time for that hiatus.

Agreed! Akaishi's personality is so boring to me, all he has is his creepy expressions. I have a lot of appreciation for Isaac as a villain, looking back on Saber. He wasn't working for anybody else, he always put his godly ambition above everything and he wanted to everybody to know about it.

Wasn't it implied in the recap episode that Akaishi wants to replace Orteca with Daiji?

This is definitely the happiest Kamen Rider has made me in a while, I think. Like... a lot of the recent projects I've liked most have been ones that have been mired in tragedy, in the inevitability of a cruel fate but still pushing through to do what you believe in despite that. So I think it's hitting me even harder when I see an arc like this about overcoming that cruel fate and going with a brighter future, especially when it's done this well.

These two are characters I've cared about for a while for a lot of different reasons, with a lot of subtle characterisation and implications guiding their paths; and it's just so so deeply satisfying to see them finally get together like this. To see their rivalry come to an apex and turned around so wonderfully.

It definitely helps that the other parts of this episode weren't bad either? Apollogeist 3 is turning out to be a hilariously watchable man, and the soft spot I have for older brother characters who try to do their best for their younger siblings made Ikki's watching but respecting Sakura's decision hit home for me. I kinda love too how it looks like he's just sort of, becoming bros with Tamaki? No huge moments or anything but the repertoire they have with each other is entertaining to watch. It DOES make sense when with Sakura and Daiji having left home, Tamaki is who he's got at the moment. I dunno, just something super fun about watching those two.

Man, just, overall great episode. Absolutely the happiest I've been with Kamen Rider in a while and I'm looking forward to where things go from now on

oh god we're getting Akaishi and Vali teaming up aren't we FeelsBadMan

.... I gotta disagree, not sure you quite understood Aguliera's story at all, if you thought the right move was for her to receive the "noble death" treatment. We're talking about a girl raised in a cult all her life, and groomed to be a demon's bride. Once the cult collapses, and Giff straight-up rejects her, (when she believes her sole purpose of her life revolves around those two things) she believes there's nothing else to live for, so death seems like the best option.

But like, isn't that a load of bull for her story to end that way? Not denying her crimes or anything, but she's been the most victimized by the Deadmans' schemes, practically a whole chunk of life has been stolen from her by them! Doesn't she deserve a chance to have a life outside of that dreary existence?

(Personally I am always :/ when victims of abuse simply are met with a horrific end after dangling a chance of happiness a little bit out their reach, im still bitter about Yuka from Faiz!)

I personally thought the Sakura and Aguliera bit this episode was really good, with Sakura throwing open the door for a new future for her. Her joining Weekend needed a better segue, but I ultimately agree with the idea: she's retailing against Giff, the shadow that's been plaguing her entire life, by actively assisting in bringing him down!

(Also in the producers notes for this episode, they teased her story isn't over and she might get a new arc as Hana, which is leagues more than what Tamaki ever got...I have the tiniest bit of faith they'll do something interesting!)

Where's the honour in a needless death? Choosing to live and fighting back against the evil you helped before is much more honourable. And of you want mors out of the character, why kill them off? You can't get character development from a corpse

A lot of this sounds like something I totally would've said earlier in the show. It's not that I misunderstood the story, I just didn't like how it was executed. I used to be very interested in the idea of an Aguilera redemption arc. But the circumstances have changed. I really wanted it to be something she chose for herself, instead of something that was chosen for her, the same way her place as Gif's bride/sacrifice was chosen for her.

For me, the outcome still seems like a load of bull no matter how I look at it. I'm disappointed that the show has left me feeling so cynical about some of these characters. And you know, I get why this arc worked for you and other people. But it left me is feeling let down by what I think could've been a strong arc if only some different decisions were made.

That scene made me feel really sad. :(

Unfortunately, I'd given up on getting more out of her character, so I figured it was better for her to go out now before she became too pathetic. Like if you have a bottle of fresh milk (assuming you like milk), you want to drink it before it ferments, right? A glorious death in battle would've at least allowed her to die on her own terms, free from the shadow of Deadmans. A little happiness and closure for someone who had a tragic life. But she was denied even that. A cruel mercy.

Honestly, I was pretty concerned about them going this route with Aguilera's story arc myself because of the potential implications. But I felt like the execution of this particular plot thread did a good job of avoiding that issue.


This kinda stands in stark contrast to what happened between Daiji and Kagerou. There, it was made clear that one needed to fully eliminate the other in order to become the best version of himself. But Sakura and Aguilera have always had an unusual bond where one (in a very roundabout way) helped pushed the other past their own weakness. In the earlier episodes, Aguilera was this to Sakura. Now, it kinda feels like Sakura is repaying the favor.

With the context of this two-parter, it felt less like Aguilera simply wanted to die a noble death, and moreso that she was going through a major existential crisis where the only way she knew how to solve it was to die by Sakura's hands. Knowing what we know about Aguilera's backstory and her history with the Deadmans, I feel like it almost would've felt too "empty" to have her die now when she hasn't even really been a major threat in the story for like 10 episodes. I like the idea of her finally being able to overcome her past and become her own person.

Also, FWIW, the stuff with Aguilera and Sakura in this episode is some of the most genuinely heartwarming stuff I've seen in a Rider series and I'm excited to see how their bond develops now that they're firmly fighting on the same side together. I don't feel like she'll get Tamaki'd because even from the beginning, it was clear that Aguilera would be a focal character than Julio. But I like that this also opens up the possibility for Tamaki to grow past Aguilera while she's still around.

Can we call Aguilera be her real name "Hana" now?

I hope Hana will contribute more in Weekend and the Igarashi family. Her Vistamp will probably get purified.

I liked this as a conclusion to the two parter, even though I was guessing last week that Aguilera would have death as her only recourse. I think it helps that the implementation was very good. Sakura realizing that simply separating Hana from her demon would leave her with the exact same issues as before, so she goes out of her way to really *show* that there is a better life and a place for her to belong. It was heartwarming, and a nice conclusion to their well-paced arc, and I'm honestly looking forward to seeing more of them in the future. I also loved that Jeanne's new Vistamp was themed after a Shoebill! I was also amused this episode that we probably got an answer to "What does Vice look like under his face mask?" since Vail looks so similar to him.


Daiji gets some more attention next week. I'm kinda curious to see where they are going with him. Lately he's been trying harder and harder to be some kind of replacement for Hiromi, which I could see leading to some interesting character growth regardless of which direction they take it.

The end of the previous villain trio and the start of a new trio.

Previously I talked about the speculation of who's going to be the new villain. If it's Vail, Akaishi, or Giff (like Ark). Turns out that.... all 3 of them are working together, lmao! Akaishi's the main human representation that interacts with others, and Vail is actually current partner of his (still working to get back at the Igarashis), and Giff is the one that provides them power, both for Akaishi's immortality and to give Vail a physical form similar looking to Vice's. So far Akaishi's history is him making a contract with Giff to gain his power and him taking up a role to oversee human's evolution, and he wants to evolve them due to it being proven to both Akemi with gun and Daiji trying to cave his head in and Akaishi wanted to 'share' his superiority with them. And though Akemi is still powerless against a superhuman, now here she can perform some action feats in normal human level with her breaking free of the zipties (like Sakura) and somersaulting off a sofa to arm herself with a gun. So what was Akemi thinking when Kagerou physically attacked her before? Or even when Giftarians slowly walked on her? Previously she acted as damsel-in-distress in those situations that imply she isn't an action type that time, but now turns out she is one, I mean she could've broken free from Kagerou's hold then?

And for the main thing in this episode between the yuri couple of Sakura and Aguilera, I already expected that it'd end with Aguilera living and apparently redeemed here midway due to how Aguilera opened up and had fun living a human life with Sakura. That'd mean she's shown to find something worthwhile in human life and the series won't waste that anymore by having her die. For this part, I kinda appreciate about how this one's less repetitive to have more different approach done in the story between them. Other than that, as she's redeemed now, I'm afraid this can strengthen the "they're not villains just misunderstood" arguments to shift the blame from anyone but the villains, like not coddling them like this (and still giving excuses to them when they take advantage/backstab of this) using Aguilera as 'proof'. And for my place, likely increasing the misuse of the word 'heroine' to be slapped on any major female characters (instead of her actually becoming one much later here for Aguilera's case), even if they're anything but (for series that has no secondary heroines, like Zi-O, and sociopaths like Ora being refered as 'heroine' :().

Wonder what'd happen to Deadman (and Akaishi's focused on Fenix for now..), or what Tamaki will do now as Aguilera is fully safe now, or how someone bratty and spoiled like Aguilera interact with others at Weekend (obviously, the other one given 'sexy' uniform with knee-high boots), but won't believe it can be handled well if it happened, or probably it'd annoy me more if she mistreats others at Weekend (like ofc, being commanded) and got free pass due to her 'good' status now. Though making her only background audience at Weekend like Tamaki is at Happy Spa isn't good either. Otherwise, as turning human would have her being refered by her human name Hana now, I'd still call her Aguilera because... well there's already a major character named Hana in this franchise previously.

I guess despite previously that 'what Aguilera wants' vs 'what's the right thing' is finally addressed, turns out that the latter wins here, and I guess the difference of Sakura and Ikki before was that Sakura knows Aguilera more and can reach out to her better than even Tamaki? Then only by that time she decides to separate her instead (with George's help to make her a̶ ̶G̶r̶i̶m̶ ̶R̶e̶a̶p̶e̶r̶ a) and not instantly at the beginning? So even if the (initial) end solution is giving someone death if it's what they want, the right thing is still not exempt and should still be tried upon here. And her speech (to instruct Aguilera) before delivering the blow to save anyone regardless of which power would mean this treatment is not strictly for Aguilera (for the shippers though..). Previously there's more showings for Lovekov, so she's a fan of heavy metal music, and she's actually an abrasive demon too, instead of the docile and peaceful one shown before, with how she trashtalks Vice. Well the implication is already there with how she already called Vice a loser before.and her behavior at ep. 29.

The one who ensures that the yuri couple had fun, the older brother Ikki and Vice himself, by fighting off Vail, I would say that Vail's showings aren't that impressive yet here, he's evenly matched with base Vice (I know there are series that has base form taking on the final threat but this one's still middle!) instead of same power but superior one. And by that Revice is expected to had upper hand on Vail shortly after. Though it may not be Vail's best capabilities with Revice's finisher not finishing off Vail. Other than that Ikki shows himself growing out of his busybodiness again by convincing Vice that they're right to stand back from the yuri couple's problem. So Vice telling Ikki to stay the way he is was a bad influence even if it's well-meaning before!

I guess it's about how Akaishi wants to evolve humans instead of killing them, so he didn't kill and would have Daiji or Akemi agree with him and become 'evolved' humanoid abomination like himself? Like heroes, villains can also opt to not kill someone, for their own reasons (or even out of moral compass, which'd be what anti-villains have), better not have the view that 'villains are inherently trying to kill heroes'.

But... Olteca was also a victim of abuse though? And Aguilera seems to have happier childhood than Olteca. And Yuka's actually one of the non-villainous monsters too. Her worst offense was killing bad guys/bullies, while that's not 100% admirable, regularly killing innocents is the one that would push someone into villainy which she's not (and otherwise she's quite considerate to people around her most of the time). Aguilera's one of the major (and likely the main) villain, she was likely abused, but she had abused others too including Julio.

Umm no, Akemi is using a concealed knife to cut off the zipties, not using brute strength. Also it's not like she can move when the Gifftarians are approaching, since she was paralyzed by Akaishi using his powers.

I don't know if I'm reading too much into things here, but I feel like we're all going to remember Sakura and Hana as being really good friends.

You and I have very different definitions of glorious.

What's so glorious about nagging a hero into killing her? If she wants to die in battle and escape Gif's shadow, she should try to kill Akaishi. What's the point in fighting someone that Gif wants dead anyway?

The best thing for her is redemption through fighting Gif, not a needless suicide. Seeing Hana hang out with Sakura is way more satisfying than Sakura killing Aguilera. Even if Hana ends up not doing much, I'll still be happier about it than the alternative.

Not to mention what it would do to Sakura. Does she really seem like the type of character who should become a murderer? Even if she has the resolve to do it now, this is definitely the type of thing she'd regret later on.

I'm just really not into the idea that death, glorious or otherwise, is somehow better than redemption

That seems to be the message this episode is trying to give, but I think that contradicts Kamen Rider Ryuki's message, that using any means to save someone is wrong and can cause more harm than good. It should also be consensual, not forcing salvation on someone who doesn't want it. Showing Aguilera another way of life was a valid attempt to give her a change of heart, but she ultimately stuck with her decision to face death with pride, so at that point, I think she deserved for her wish to be granted.

Of course our definitions are different. Glory is subjective, so the only definition that applies to an individual is the one determined by that individual. That's fine. For Aguilera, we could see that she was genuinely happy in the moment before Sakura severed her devil.

Furthermore, Sakura was cruel enough to break her promise even after she requested a condition in exchange for that promised death, just like Olteca and Ikki (albeit due to memory loss so he can be absolved) did, making this the second time Aguilera was given a false promise. Aguilera shouldn't affiliate with someone who consciously breaks a promise.

A glorious death in battle is not the same as suicide, which doesn't have the feeling of bravery and strength of will attached to it. Even harakiri, which is similarly romanticized in Bushido culture, is generally performed in repentance as a way of regaining lost honor. Glory doesn't have to be heroic or serve a greater purpose, it can be selfish as well.

Part of being a Kamen Rider is the willingness to do unpleasant things for the sake of justice and carry the burden of those sins. Ikki and Daiji have already killed three Giftex collectively, so Sakura killing one would be a bigger deal to them than it'd be to her.

Different authors - different morality. Hana/Aguilera is in many ways still a child, incapable of making decisions. She is not as vicious and ossified in her evil as Asakura. And just because she said she wants to die doesn't mean it's her real wish. Rather, banal stubbornness due to their own pride, which Olteka and Giff had previously trampled on well.

A broken promise is also quite unpleasant thing. Hana could well be offended, considering this another betrayal. Even so, she would have survived in the end.

She was also happy hanging out with Sakura and when Sakura said why she saved her instead of killing her and Hana realised that she was wrong. She only wanted to die because she thought she had nothing left. The entire point of this episode is that she's not alone; she has Sakura

I don't think breaking a promise is more cruel than murder. I wouldn't trust Sakura of she did kill her. And I'd say Hana is happy that Sakura broke that promise.

Suicide is suicide. There is no glory, regardless of whether it's a fight or not. It wasn't even a real fight anyway since Aguilera wanted to lose. And again if she wants to die in battle, she'd be better off fighting Akaishi, a bad guy who would actually want to kill her.

Yes, Riders have killed before. But they're usually in life or death situations. There is no benefit in killing Aguilera

On a more personal note, I will never think that suicide is ever the right decision. Ever. Regardless of circumstances, honour, glory or whatever, I will always be disappointed if a character thinks that suicide is the best way to deal with a situation and nobody stops them

This is the thing, there was no "right" choice to make in a morally complicated situation like what occurred with Hana. I felt flexible about the outcome, whether it was Aguilera dying or being saved, because the most important thing is showing that Sakura thought her actions through and picked what she truly thought was best and that she had the conviction to see it through. I'd argue that this is a major theme of the show in general, which can be seen in other character arcs like Hiromi's self-detrimental dedication to heroics and even Tamaki's dedication to assisting Aguilera. Just my take on what the show is trying to convey, it isn't about right and wrong so much as doing what you truly believe in, which is actually exactly how I see Ryuki too.

Daiji: "Why won't you die!?"
Akaishi: "ViStamps, son! They activate in response to physical trauma. You can't hurt me, Jack."

Alright, so seriously, this was better than I was expecting, though the only thing preventing me from giving it an *(Hudram voice) excellent, * is that I feel maybe they could have done a little more with Aguilera before this arc, but overall, I do like how they ended here arc. You done me proud Tamaki!

I also kind of wish Vail wasn't just Red Vice, though I still think Vail is Revice's best villain. Though after this episode, I have a better grasp on Akaishi, in that since he's technically an ancient alien (yes, I said it) he doesn't quite understand human emotions and thusly isn't able to properly convey them (i.e., his half-humored laugh, his sarcastic nature, and facial expressions). I don't know, definitely agree I prefer Isaac over him in a way, but thinking this, I can take a little more seriously, instead of thinking "this guy has a neon sign saying, 'the villain' wherever he goes with a villain theme to boot."

Maybe it's because I don't quite trust Weekend, but I have a feeling they might run Hana through the wringer, just because she used to be a demon or something. But it was great to see some of the old Genome forms and Revice taking a bit of a backseat, and Lovecof becoming a rebellious teenager (great to see Vice hasn't forgotten he can do that ability and that it fit perfectly with the show).

Next Episode: Vail: "Vice, the pandemic's over, you can remove the mask."

I don't know since when Olteca 'wants to be understood' or something, what he wanted was to make the world his and he had sadistic pleasure in watching others suffer in his evil deeds. Who cares about 'being understood' at that point. Personally I'd not see tragic backstory as redeeming trait or 'valid' excuse for villainy, because actually hardship and trauma can make someone more empathetic and kinder due to how they're more able to understand other people's difficulties and understand what others have been through. The abuse partly explains why he acts that way but doesn't mean Olteca should not be held accountable and responsible for his misdeeds and shift the blame on anyone else like the heroes/others for 'not understanding him' or such. I mean also, just because you see another villain being able to be talked down (and sloppy one at that for Zero One's Gai), doesn't mean it can apply to every one of them, that's generalizing.

I personally never saw Julio as being romantic towards Aguilera and I'm not a fan of shoehorning romance in anything too, it's about Aguilera picking up Julio when he was at his lowest thus Julio has boundless loyalty to her, it's like the Three Crows fiercely following Kazumi around in Build, for examples of same gender ones. What Julio wants is to repay her, like keeping her safe, not for Aguilera to get on his dick. It's not shown but he should've gotten what he wanted here if it's to keep Aguilera safe.

I don't know why this is 'wrong' for contradicting other KR message, why certain other KR messages or traits here are regarded as authoritative that being different from those makes others 'wrong' or such (and I feel like for some reason you really make something like Zero One authoritative for all KR). Those other stuffs are also coming from humans with own personal tastes and preferences. The messages for both shows doesn't seem to show something really bad, other than you seemingly having personal vendetta against any promise breaking, regardless of context, when Olteca's particularly terrible not necessarily for breaking the promise, but about how he does that by continuing his murder spree of people and gloats about his misdeeds to her, not solely the act of promise breaking alone there. But Sakura's actions are nowhere near as depraved as that one to gloat about murder spree, promises being broken for normal human reasons is actually more common, including for something out of their control too, and it's also even better when they'd try to explain why the promise is being broken and try to compromise. At least Sakura does the latter to compromise for Aguilera's life entirely by being there for her, that Aguilera's complaint was about having nowhere to go (that she's wrong).

No offense but there's some BS regarding this claim in your part, like you'd demonize those who actually did that, doing the said unpleasant things for the sake of justice and burden it, because of how it doesn't fit the better outcome that you thought can happen, like Kouta. You were also kinda still treating it as hostility from Geiz to promise to kill Sougo when he turned evil in his conquest for his sake. And also as someone said, the unpleasant thing here can be the broken promise, but you contradict yourself here by championing for Riders to do unpleasant thing yet talk down exactly that.

Dunno about murder, but Sakura previously was someone who'd support/justify bad deeds, when it's something that can give 'good outcomes', like Bon and Seiko (well this one's her karate coach). She probably has now changed since becoming Jeanne but just a reminder.

Jack in this series is his older brother Jack Revice tho! A̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶G̶i̶f̶f̶ ̶C̶e̶l̶l̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶N̶a̶n̶o̶m̶a̶c̶h̶i̶n̶e̶s̶,̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶V̶i̶S̶t̶a̶m̶p̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶s̶h̶i̶t̶.̶ Otherwise it can be a fun idea to have Akaishi retains his 'human' look while directly fighting Riders like Steven Armstrong, and like more memes potential like said Armstrong (a̶n̶d̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶M̶G̶R̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶p̶o̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶v̶i̶a̶ ̶m̶e̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶k̶). Probably him absorbing Giff to power up later like Armstrong absorbing Excelsus remains (and for KR, like Masamune absorbing Gamedeus).

It's humorous how you contrast Aguilera with Asakura, since Aguilera's actress is called Asakura.

I don't think we can arbitrarily decide whether Aguilera's wish was real or not. That's undermining her independence, the same as Deadmans grooming her to believe she only had one option in life. It's not like her decision was even that uninformed, as she was briefly shown another way to live. But when that time came, she was resolute about having her honorable battle to the death and that's a choice she made on her own. Showing people other paths is okay and helpful, forcing them down the one you want is not.

A broken promise is an unnecessary unpleasant thing. If a person has no intention of keeping a promise, then they shouldn't make it.

I respect that you have your own philosophy, but I have mine. I guess it's true that the fight was a sham though, similar to Ikishima Midari rigging gambles in the opponent's favor. A possible solution would've been for Sakura to give an ultimatum as an added condition, to make the fight even and make Aguilera agree to live in the event that Sakura dies instead.

Just curious, what did he accomplish here to make you proud of him though?

Olteca mentioned in his backstory that due to his super genius mind, he grew up being misunderstood by everybody and abused by his jealous father, which is the reason why he became a misanthropist and joined Deadmans. I guess he's another case of Adel, or Daido, or Mika from Kyuranger Episode Stinger, where an innocent character becomes corrupted due to succumbing to despair. Olteca couldn't empathize with others, since there was nobody who shared his experience, not even the other cultists who were ostracized for other reasons. Not denying his evil deeds, but he's still a tragic character who wouldn't have ended up this way if he had been shown more love. Probably the most tragic part was that it looks like he realized too late the value of his friendship with Aguilera and Julio, before he was killed by Gif.

I'm not saying that KR shows are wrong to contradict messages from other KR shows or anything like that, but if two messages are opposites, then it makes sense that I would lean towards the one I most agree with. Just like the writers who have their own personal preferences, it's the same for everybody else. I'm usually critical of Kobayashi, but I appreciate the story she wanted to tell with Ryuki, about the futility in always trying to do the right thing and the necessity to strive for it anyway. I can't just go from that message to a different one that tells me to embrace the cynicism of impossible best case scenarios and give up on doing the right thing. That doesn't feel heroic to me.

Promises can be renegotiated or absolved, but only on the recipient's terms. The promise maker is still morally obliged to keep the promise as long as the recipient holds them to it. Otherwise, it'd just be an empty word with no meaning. That's why I have little tolerance or respect for people who make promises lightly.

Are you referring to Kouta killing Kaito? Hmm, okay, perhaps I was hypocritical about that.

Regarding Geiz though, I never had any beef with him and I don't recall demonizing him, just saying his promise with Sougo was made out of mutual respect for each other's determination. Geiz isn't the kind of person who trusts easily, which is a good quality in moderation, so it would've been OOC if they were suddenly best buds. That scene was Geiz giving his arch enemy the chance to prove him wrong, which was a pretty big step for his development.

Fair point, probably the best argument I've seen so far in favor of this episode. The idea that staying true to your belief is more important than halfheartedly doing the "right" thing. It's not enough to make me like this episode or the direction the show is taking, since there's really nothing I can do about the fact that this simply doesn't work for me, but if Kinoshita's intention was to make the viewers feel passionately in either way about what happened, then I guess he succeeded. Thanks for sharing your take.

It wasn't much, but because he actually helped give Sakura an idea of how to help Aguilera, by having fun with her while waiting for her driver to get fixed, instead of just getting slapped and calling it a day. The fact that, in a way, he contributed more than just being a rejected nerd made me happy.

Actually I'd want to reply on this topic on the oncoming latest Revice episode discussions if I got a chance (the talk that corresponds to this), but for this one I'm doing it as probably there won't be these kind of talk anymore in the future.

Oh fair enough, I did forget for a moment about Olteca's relation with others part here sorry, and yeah for this part you did view him in tragic light here previously too, and certainly there are parts of it with his parental abuse (if his father abused his mother too, it's probably not a society issue as a whole but just an individual), but otherwise Olteca's past was about having superiority complex over others due to his talents, him being prodigious makes him disconnected from others with normal abilities, like how he doesn't need school due to his genius, that shows his difference to typical humans, and he'd view other humans as worthless and foolish for that (which fuels his goal to forcibly evolve humans to 'his' level).

Though it's true that Olteca did display the negative/unpleasant side/stereotype about being intelligent, how it can give them isolation, like how studies show that people with significantly different IQ scores do have trouble relating, a number of bookish/intelligent kids being quiet and reserved, a greater predilection towards clinical depression... or even serial killers falling on the extreme ends of the IQ spectrum, also reinforcing 'unable to relate'. Olteca displays the most malicious take of it (plus the serial killer part of said example), he always knows how intelligent he is and he had grandiose sense of superiority by that, wants to put other worthless idiots beneath him... just like his father being offended with his son being superior.

I admit you did explain yourself quite well regarding him being 'misunderstood', but sorry that I had problems/triggers with the general talk about villains' tragic and/or misunderstood, like either the "wouldn't have ended up this way" you brought up here or "just misunderstood" (others also can add up "not/never evil" for this one) talk is frequently used (in my experience), to shift the blame to everyone else but that villain, like blaming others for exactly not 'giving them love' but instead "denying" them from what they want (like fighting against their schemes), and like what I said, thinking that 'understanding' them meant agreeing with them and letting the villains win and get what they want (combined with utter lack of care.concern of their victims, or treating others/the whole world as "deserving" of that due to 'not understanding them'). I don't want to immediately have apologist view on villains (that is liked by audience), and I want to focus on giving counterarguments instead to their current actions and character, explaining what forms their actions has been done far more often, also often to the point that only the backstory and what happened to them is taken into account, ended up romanticizing them as a whole.

About the flashbacks with Aguilera and Julio, sometimes KR did a bait-and-switch for characters, like the aformentioned Takeshi Asakura, who had a part of the audience being led to think that Asakura had some sympathetic traits by trying to save Akira from a fire in their house, but turns out that it's just a lie made up by Asakura and worse he's the one who started the fire, and he meant for others to lure Akira to be killed. For Olteca, he had flashbacks of him working with Aguilera and Julio, but after that, he lamented about his failure to make the world his. It means he still only cared about ruling the world, and it's required for him to work with both Aguilera and Julio to achieve his goals until they're no longer useful to him (or even temporarily re-work together due to Aguilera having mutual goals to bring forth Giff) like the time to sacrifice Aguilera for Giff, so flashbacks about his attempts to dominate the world would involve both of them. B̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶a̶l̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶K̶i̶t̶a̶z̶a̶k̶i̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶v̶i̶l̶l̶a̶i̶n̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶w̶n̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶(̶O̶d̶i̶n̶,̶ ̶A̶r̶c̶h̶ ̶O̶r̶p̶h̶n̶o̶c̶h̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶G̶i̶f̶f̶)̶.̶

Of course everyone would have their preferences (I also hated the message on ep. 23 for Revice before), but prefering the messages someone agrees more is still a subjective thing, it's still based on how someone feels, not hard facts, so it's probably better to not instantly deem a message contradicting/you don't agree with as the 'wrong' one and the one you agree more with as the 'right' one.

I know that people shouldn't make promises if they can't keep it, but people still can't see the future and I'm also against the hindsight bias view to blame people due to how to those, "they had it coming". Like promises can put someone at a dilemma, when someone wants to please a kid by buying them what they want, as first they don't know 100% whatbut turns out that what they want is something inappropriate for kids, and then both outcomes now has both something good and bad, to not expose that kid into something appropriate but would break the promise, or fulfilling the promise but poisoning that kid with the content. And like I said, promise can be undone by something out of their control like, being hospitalized due to accident after promising to attend someone's special events like graduation or such. There are rooms of improvement for those, but actually none of those are outright terrible stuff, far less than being a genocidal dictator, or even behaviors like gashlighting toxic abuse even if those are upfront. And in inverse, someone's cruelty like Olteca continuing his murder spree of the cult members, would stay cruel whenever promises are involved or not.