Kamen Rider Revice Episode 38- "Father & Child Weaving Together!" Discussion
 

A new VStamp might be the only way to stop the powerful new demons.

Ultimate Revi and Ultimate Vice's debut and it lacks any weight whatsoever, as it was used against a horde of mooks and a MOTW rather than anyone relevant. Instead, they tried to put the weight on the possibility of the father's death. Which was obvious wasn't going to happen. As a result, this episode lived and died by the impression of the final form itself.

And that first impression was garbage. When it comes to final forms, one thing I hate is final forms that just have all the abilities of prior forms. Something I hate even more are final forms that are so indecisive on what they can do, they can just do whatever is necessary at the moment.
Seriously, it has a magnet theming because when Revi and Vice are on opposite sides of an enemy, they put a magnetic pull detail. Which kind of coincides with the R/B color scheme, I guess? Otherwise, it's just fuckugly with an indistinct set of abilities. Super stronk and super fast, with a cloning ability that will probably be used once more, ever. And I'm sure as the show goes on, it will gain more random abilities as needed.

I really wanted to give it a chance in motion, but the colors blur even worse, making it an eye sore. Thunder Gale still looks worse, though. I'll give it that.

I could honestly harp on this shitty final form all night, so I'll just say the rest of the episode didn't do much for me. Daiji's overzealous sense of righteousness is being played, Hiromi brings up lacking a demon caused this very issue in himself, which was a nice moment. Otherwise, the sheer fact that Akaishi is able to play Daiji like this is laughable. It only makes sense if he's so broken emotionally that he just dull to it all, which isn't true. His emotions are causing him to lash out, but he shouldn't be acting like a pawn.

even if this ultimate form debut EXTREMELY Underwhelming (like I said the fact this is being used on what could've otherwise been the MOTW of any episode and not much changes kinda makes it kinda bleh)the fact that we're all caught up on the toy release schedule and things can finally freaking happen again instead of the show treading water like it has been since Thunder Gale(minus the wrap up of Sakura vs Agurelia) makes it passable. The fact that this is the first time since Ghost(Why must so many good designs be wasted in such a bad show) I liked the final form more than the mid season upgrade design wise helps (TBF didn't watch Zi-O and dropped Zero One early but I at least looked at the designs)

EDIT On that note while I don't think Daiji will be an antagonist for more than 2 episodes at most given this show's track record of wrapping up whatever interesting plotlines it can come up with it'd be interesting(and even then if they had built up Daiji to be anything more than middle child syndrome the character aside from Kagerou) if we got the Evil equivalent of Holy Live in that time period it'd be cool(probably saving Evil's ultimate form for v cinema if anything sucks too because I liked Evil's design SO MUCH MORE THAN LIVE'S or more accurately just wish they didn't slap yellow and white armor on Evil's teal and black/grey suit)

I haven't watched the episode yet, but... Hiromi has a demon? We see it in episode 1 and we know that blowing a demon up like this does not destroy it permanently, or certain characters couldn't just spawn them again, or become Phase 3. The overzealousness was his own making, not because of "lacking" a demon.

Or am I wrong here?

As far as power-up episodes go, this was kinda underwhelming, especially for a final form. That fight was really kinda nothing? Purple guy didn't even get in a 'how can this be?!' line or anything. I did like that Ikki's father got involved in the process, and that we didn't just do a reiteration of Ikki and Vice's strenghtening their bond for the fourth time in a row.

What I'm really interested in is Daiji though, because it looks like the show is finally progressing with his descent to the dark side. I don't know if this is going to be the conflict for just a two-parter or if it'll be the status quo up until near the end, not necessarily saying either option is better than the other. But after how long its felt like they've just been hammering the same point with the guy, I'm looking forward to seeing his issues reach boiling point and bring him into conflict with his siblings. (Though I do hope that said conflict involves both his siblings rather than just Ikki, buuuut things are definitely looking like this can only culminate in a 1on1 between Revi and Live).

It like... doesn't matter, and has never been important, frankly. Not like anything Hiromi says in this particular episode looks like it's going to make a difference to Daiji anyway.

It should be important though. If you are trying to make an emotional moment, it needs to be internally coherent or it utterly falls apart, as it does here. Watched the episode now and yeah, this comes off as if the writers don't know what happens in their own show, which, honestly, doesn't feel that surprising.

Haven?t seen the subs yet, I thought the Hiromi and Daiji moment was Hiromi trying to connect what Daiji?s doing now with Hiromi in ep 1 trying to jump in to help without considering other possibilities caused him to summon the Rex Deadman and make the situation worse. But I guess connecting how they both don?t really have demons anymore sort of works.

Moving on, Ultimate Revice is fine in my opinion. I like the design for both of them well enough.

The whole cloning thing could be a reference to how Ikki started out as a busybody trying to do everything himself, but in reality I doubt we?ll see this power often enough for any of my speculation to matter. The magnetic powers are a little out of left field, but it kind of looks cool.

Wish we could?ve seen the form debut against someone with more narrative weight like Vail, but the bit with him keeling over in pain being the indicator for Ikki that Genta was dying was neat.

I give Ultimate Revi and Vice 2-3 weeks before it starts jobbing hard because I'm really not sure it's being depicted as powerful enough to actually take down any of the active main villains at this point (at least Giff and Akaishi).

Why they would give a form cloning powers after how infamously Gatakariba was underused because of it (unless they've found a cheaper way to pull it off ) is beyond me.

-Hiromi! He feels so.....enlightened, in his current appearance. Almost if he had some really good and meaningful char development while he away (Toeiiiiii, I don't want to wait until August to see what happens in Dear Gaga!) I think he clicks really well into the role of support!(though I'd imagine theyre super eager to throw a belt onto him, we'll see?) His speech to Daiji is really solid, I enjoyed it.

-In this edition of "hey the Karizaki family stuff is pretty alright and is apporipately complicated!", do love that George immediately rejected the idea of Genta and them sneaking behind the family's back to do the surgery? George has already gotten a full taste of what stuff like that can do, after all...(Hey Masumi! I hope you washed your hands after falling to the floor like that, it'd be gross to touch Genta's innards with dirty hands!)

-...........Are we supposed to take Ikki shutting down the operation before its completion (it was at.....96% i think? something like that?) means that Giffard Rex can get even stronger at some point? Peharps its a subtle tease to a RealEyezing Hopper/Almighty Saber equivalent?

-.......Hikaru, you're still not winning any points from me. I was watching the raws and was like, "Damn! Really love that look on Hana's face when facing that giant mob, it's full of venom!" And then rewatching with subs I learn he had to a make a snide comment about how that doesn't fit her pretty face or something? Fuck right off with that, she's allowed to be as vicious as she likes to the person who essentially ruined her life!

-Oh hey, it's a final form! Do love that they went back to the original color scheme but slightly darker, but I feel it's a bit too busy for my own personal taste? The magnet powers are pretty sick tho, I'll give it that. (How much you wanna bet we'll never see that cloning gimmick again?) Shame we didn't have any powerful demon to kill with its debut fight, but reflecting an attack from Giff has to be worth something, right? Ultimate Revice ain't scoring highly on appearance/debut for me, but it works enough for what the show is doing.

-The bit at the end with Genta near the end, it's real cute! I do love when this family gets to mess around.

It's an ok episode, at best. Nothing too standout. However, as someone who's felt like Revice's been spinning its wheels for forever, it felt like the show has the chance to finally taken a step forward? Let's hope that chance isn't wasted!

This was... fine. I think in terms of dialogue there were some nice highlights. The Karizakis continue to be a surprisingly well handled pair of characters and I really enjoyed both of them this time around. I think the bit with Hiromi acknowledging that he was also too recklessly righteous in the past was a great moment too. I like the concept of a magnetism final form! On the other hand, this episode also has plenty of Revice's typical issues. Ikki just barging into the surgery and smashing things was... strange. I don't really see how that saved his dad but sure. Hikaru continues to be frankly just an annoying character. Ultimate Revice itself is... not doing it for me. It's a combination of factors, the fact that it didn't feel very distinct outside of being really strong, the color schemes of Revi and Vice being too similar makes them hard to tell apart in the chaos of the battle, and honestly it just looks tacky (and not in the good way Thunder Gale looks). I think a lot of people, myself included, are at a point where frustrations about this show are beginning to boil over since it is obvious there is only so much they can do to expand on things this late in the game and so many issues are longstanding. It really isn't a BAD show, but its not shaping up to be something I'll want to revisit any time soon.

Revice continues to be a frustratingly shallow and disappointing show for me with this episode.

I like the design of the form, but the way they got there is just a waste of a perfectly good concept. The idea of Goerge and his dad repairing their relationship would be fine if the show allocated more time to them growing past their issues, but that has been such an afterthought that the whole thing falls utterly flat.

I like the idea of the dad being willing to sacrifice his life for his children and dooming them to this fight, but his lack of presence beyond a gag character in the show before and just not existing after the reveal makes it feel hollow without the Vail special, and even then, it undercuts itself by kinda suggesting that this version of the character is effectively gone and he has been more pretending to be more like it.

As for Ikki, I seriously question what his actions achieved in the end, I find it questionable to assume that breaking the glass case immediately stops his father's pain, but I can look past it. I however don't like the implication that he once more took a decision that wasn't his to make and took it from someone else. If your father chose to bet his life on this, you got no right to change that! I get he is a busy body and that, that can be good, but once you are actively undermining what someone else wants you cross over into egoist, my way or the highway, type. This all just worked out because the story bends over backward so the stamp still functions.

All in all, a very disappointing episode with a surprisingly dull fight to boot, the one thing Revice usually excels.

Best episode this show had since the Kamen Rider Vail debut. Finally some freaking things happening again, Jesus. And would you know it, as soon as dad is back, as soon as the bath house gang is back together, this show is fun again.

It's almost like this was something they did exactly right from the very start so ripping it apart for 13 episodes was a bad idea. As for the "final form", I like the magnetic powers, very well done. Plus, the way Revi & Vice put on the Giffard Rex helmets is so cool.

I hope the show finally gets a move on again. But then again - Daiji. This character is so annoying, I always hated him, and I can't stand seeing him acting like a pouting toddler right now.

Oh by the way, might be a coincidence, but Vice said both "Nipponichi!" and "Zenryoku Zenkai!" in the same episode. Since the VA apparently improvises a lot of dialogue, I wonder if this was recorded around the time DonBrothers hit the scene. Nah, it's more likely to be coincidental, but still fun.

I like the concept of "Powered armor" of Ultimate Revi and Vice its like when ironman using Hulkbuster.. and i also like Final form that doesn't have all power because its usually become P2W button

However what make it Lacking is the story itself.. and this form feel not needed at all.. at the end of the day all of this form do is just defeat mooks which i think Thundergale still capable of... the supposed strong Hellgifterian doesn't even show off his abilty first before being defeated so its just another MoTW.. i think Volcano still have stronger debut because defeat Julio which is Major character, this debut has nothing... even weaker debut like Thundergale have orteca to defeat

Gotta agree that it was a bit of an underwhelming final form debut, just beating up some mooks and an upgraded MOTW. Love the suits and their fighting style though, aside from the out of nowhere Gatakiriba attack. Revice's character writing is still very strong though, aside from Hikaru who I still have no clue what his characters point is

In Hikaru's case, it seems that his agency at some point asked Toei to give the character more attention. And apparently, there was no time left for some character development, so he got the belt and "banter" over Hana, I guess.

For what it's worth, according to the show's own chief producer, their goal with Hikaru is specifically not to focus on the process of how he became a Kamen Rider, but instead how becoming a Kamen Rider causes a change in his life, which, you know, put that way, makes him sound like a unique and compelling presence who adds a different flavor to the show. It's all in how much he lives up to that goal by the end, I suppose.

Anyways, I thought this was a solid episode. There were some really smart writing decisions on a conceptual level, like tying to the final form's debut to the theme of family, both through Genta and through Masumi and George, and Shibasaki's usual talent for the effects got to shine through here, especially when Revi and Vice go chasing after that new Stamp. There are a lot of shots in this one that impressed me with how much they don't feel like something I see in Rider all the time.

I also appreciate Ultimate Revice's design a lot more already after reading from that same page I just linked that the decision to have Vice look nearly identical to Revi was a conscious effort to portray how Ikki's relationship with him has grown so far beyond the idea of Ikki being good and Vice being his amoral foil. They look the same because they're equal, essentially, and again, it's like when you put it that way, suddenly it sounds way more appealing. My initial impression of those suits was dominated by the thought that Vice just looked like Revi, but looking at it through this lens, it makes sense that Vice finally gets to just look like the superhero now, instead of some weird monster in a cheap costume, like he started out, or a dark reflection of that hero, like Jack Revice.

*Please* dont start with that, that was only a theory by JPN fans....I dont want it to become one of those toku rumors that get passed around so much ppl start touting it as fact. No matter how much you're not into Hikaru, it shouldnt boil over into spreading nasty rumors about the actor himself and how *he* doesnt deserve the role...he's just a kid after all.

I feel the problem is that Hikaru doesn't have enough presence to really ingrain that sense of growth.
He went from guy who followed Sakura, to now some kind of cocky badass? He feels like a baby who cried for his bottle, and once he got it, now he's acting as if he's actually cool.

I get what they're trying to go for, but they fumbled the ball on Hikaru by forgetting to make him a character in the first place.

Yes, but who is to blame? After all, it`s not that he was introduced in the last third of the show, he is on the screen from the first episodes. If desired, at least a little character could be added to him.

I've followed Revice very casually, and I have one question who is Hikaru? Like what's his personality and stuff?

Well... he likes Karate (I think)... and ice cream.

Like, I don't want to dogpile on the dude, but that's pretty much all the show gives us. We don't (okay, I suppose I should be fair; I don't) really know much about him, because he only really shows up when a scene involving either Weekend or Sakura happens.

Maybe. The fact of the matter is that we can only assume that. In fact, what was the point of having Sakura ask him before getting the costume, "Do you really like karate or did you do it to follow me?". And with any his answer, it would already be character development.
In fairness, in the last episodes, he is trying to revive the by competing with Hana, but it looks so toothless, as if he himself comes up with lines.
In no way am I a hater of a character, let alone an actor. In the end, my least favorite Ryder villain also became my favorite Ultraman. So Tomoya Oku can still please viewers in toku and beyond. But now I'm trying to remember the more unnecessary and nondescript Ryder in the franchise and I can't.

Finally the ViStamp collection is full on the closing screen.

Though it'd be what's expected of me, yeah I'd say the final form debut is kinda underwhelming. Before elaborating, I guess the "Giff power" Akemi talked about so far was about them multiplying into huge numbers, just like how Giff Juniors emerged. But other than that, if the theme about 2 side of the magnets (N for Revi, S for Vice), then it's underutilized other than the finisher to some extent, they are mostly just fighting with energy powered punch/kicks or AoE attacks, red for Revi and blue for Vice. There can be a lot more creative use of magnet power, like they're fighting huge hordes of Giff henchmen, the magnet ability can be used to pull a chunk of the mooks in 1 place so their numbers don't matter, they can be killed in 1 attack or such. Barid Rex's ice and fire were utilized better. The Remix Rod, other than using Ikki's soccer ability, it kinda reminds me of GaoIcarus' Icarus Dynamite. What I'd like is that the trend of final form looking exactly like base form is put on halt here with Ultimate Revi/Vice's design being different, and I would put them above Revice's design, but still not Jack Revice's.

Over Demons has no hype anymore, other than Hikaru keep using it, it's now actually beaten by Giff's hordes along with Jeanne and Aguilera. Over Demons now acted just like a regular Rider, despite it being a combination of Vail and Demons, 2 previously big threats, albeit it only had slightly higher stats than Demons. And now Jeanne claiming to be invincible turns into embarrassing joke.

How the form was created, there's 2 families with their issues involved, fitting the episode's title of Father and Son Synthesize, featuring both Ikki and Genta, as well as George and Masumi. For the Igarashis part, it's quite nice use of Genta, using what happened in the past to try solving problems as Subject 071 that has Giff cells, and dealing with his potential demise of bidding farewell but also planning to take a bath with the rest of family when it's over. What I don't like is though, ironically despite the accusation of Sakura being Kinoshita's favorite, Genta's "farewell" to Sakura was the most objectified one, only viewing her as who she is, the little princess, instead of her actual characterization like Ikki and Daiji. Like the ad-vice for Sakura can be like, loosen up (as a high strung girl) or something. I'm not really into the Karizaki part in this episode though, the first part was decent, of showing how George trying too hard to condemn someone guilty can put himself in the wrong as well to be clouded by his judgment and not thinking rationally, but George making amends with Masumi was kinda rushed here, all it takes was Ikki giving a small pep talk, over being honest which somehow worked against lifetime daddy issues George had, of which George has been so headstrong previously like Sakura's attempt to get those 2 to make up.

Ikki here showed that he still prioritized his family over anything else, in how he'd rather have the world where his family is complete, to not let Genta be sacrificed, even when he's ready. Though still he's not someone who'd leave anyone other than his family to their fate in the crisis, so he's still practically someone who'd look for best outcome if possible, and he did here to almost complete the Giffard Rex ViStamp and saving Genta, practically being a 'busybody' to intervene and interrupt something that can cause bad outcome. I still would want to know what'd he do if there's less best outcome and he had to choose between family or common people's needs. It's probably a bit easy other than Ikki needing to split the ViStamp in half, but Ikki being 'busybody' here did cause the best outcome to give humanity hope against Giff and saving Genta, so this'd prove Daiji wrong, but Daiji's mind still hasn't changed yet, and that'd just mean Daiji is the one who is blinded by the reality surrounding him, that humanity actually now have hope (though Akaishi dismissed them), and Daiji can be the one to ruin things instead if he keeps mad.

Hiromi returns and, I'm quite glad he seems to have learned his lesson, as he said here, he acknowledged that now he can't participate in battle, but he can still perform heroics in other field. Him insisting to keep using Demons Driver was just purely being reckless, and him having self-preservance here doesn't make him any less heroic, if he's not apathetic like his Dear Gaga self. And as expected, he relates his previous recklessness with Daiji's now. But Daiji's different now, Hiromi's sense of justice was only endangering himself before, while Daiji turned himself into an extremist that'd bring misfortune to others. I didn't expect about Rex Deadman being brought up again now, of which turns out losing the demon was what made Hiromi even more impulsive in his decisions, that Rex Deadman was what balanced him as his demon. I'd see later if demons can re-manifest, either for Hiromi's Rex Deadman or Daiji's Kagerou though.

I think it's quite good to try fleshing out Giff more here (though I don't believe the series can live this up), that Akaishi claimed Giff was misunderstood due to being viewed as nothing more than a devil by humans when he sought peaceful coexistence with humankind. Which adds some tragic points on Giff and explanations of him starting his evil deeds. Of course, this can also be Akaishi's prejudiced views against humans and Giff, talking about humans being demonic ones, which can be true that some humans can be really vile. Doesn't mean Giff is faultless for 'retaliating' against humans though. If Revice is still performing well, perhaps humans being demonic ones can be used to explain about the demons that existed in human's body, but this is probably just going to be a throwaway line...

Hikaru's doing... his own version of Tamaki's "smile" :p. Otherwise, still Aguilera being ruined by Giff doesn't mean she's faultless, even she herself has said she committed so many unforgivable sins, she can be also ruining people's life herself. And her decimating anyone on Giff's side can be potentially dangerous to someone not really deserving it like Daiji, who is an extremist currently but is misguided. Or likely Akemi before if she's still there.

Genta was ready to die (along with giving his family farewell), not that he wanted to die, perhaps if he wanted to he'd rather survive within the 50/50 chance, he also had plans to take the Igarashis for a bath if all of it ended.

I don't care what anyone says about this, but this DID NOT feel like a final form debut episode!!
It lacks any of the flair or any of the usual drama that comes with the build up to the lead rider finally overcoming one of their biggest hurdles throughout the series and the satisfaction of that moment

Or to simply put it? It doesn't feel like they earned it

I started to think the Gifu become statue is really stupid because he was denied by human society.

Here's a question. You think Akaishi will become a monster, or just be absorbed into Giff without a dramatic final fight?

Absorbed with no fanfare. If they wanted to give him a big bad monster form already, they would've made him the guy that Ikki and Vice beat up this episode.

Instead, I'm sure he'll just stick around trying to manipulate Daiji or others till the final battle, only to then be absorbed into Giff as part of some sacrifice to bring Giff fully into the physical world or something.

"I think I get the gist of it." *Said as someone who hasn't seen the Hiromi special*

Giffard Rex is a fantastic form, in design and power, it's a one-man army and has that great dual transformation with Ikki and Vice. But that's about it....

See, this didn't feel like a Final From debut, and not just because they used it on a bunch of mooks and a super crone, but because the transformation sequence (barring the fact that it's both Ikki and Vice, that was cool) and jingle felt like any regular Rider powerup, and the whole arc didn't have as much of an impact as previous shows. Because compared to Zero-Two and Xross Saber's debuts, this felt lackluster in comparison.

I also have to rant about Daiji a bit here, since I feel like it would have made more sense for him to become some kind of vigilante against Akaishi rather than begrudgingly follow him, because after watching him for the past months before the turning point makes it plenty obvious he would never under any circumstances follow that scuzzball. I know what they're going for, and that's not bad, but unless the next episode (which I'm not giving my hopes up for) can prove me wrong, this feels like the exact same thing that happened with Yaiba in Zero-One and that's not a good thing in the slightest.

All in all, not a bad episode, but very lacking in bravado and spectacle usually attributed with a Final Form (which is a shame, since this form looks amazing, and has a neat gimmick).

Next Episode: The Obligatory Secondary Rider (Doesn't) Join The Bad Guys to Beat The Main Rider Episode/Arc.

Who had a feeling Giff might interact with Ikki after he and Vice used the Giffard Rex Stamp?

Taking advantage of Vice’s contract with Ikki, he’ll use Ikki as the new vessel.

Absorbed with no fanfare for reasons said above

pretty much how I feel the guy Revi and Vice fought could've just been a MOTW Any other episode and it'd made no difference