Kamen RIder Revice Episode 44- "Laying Down My Body & Soul!" Discussion
 

Ikki makes a shocking decision to stop Giff while Vice tries to help Daiji.

That synopsis is... Off.

It seldom isn’t.

time to answer the question is the new form Kamen Rider Giff or a fusion of Evil and Live

EDIT it's an evil and live fusion

It's like they realized the 30ies sucked so much and decided "F--K it let's bring back the s--t people actually liked"

And so Daiji ends his Lawbro Arc and basically ends up with everyone in the Neutral Camp. This journey was a long and rather amusing and enjoyable one, and the payoff was rather nice.

Demons returns for one last, short-lived hurrah and Daiji's arc is finally done. The reward being a... fine kitbash suit.

Man, that was painful and exhausting.

my only problems with eviltylive's design is I wish they either painted the Holy Live bits to look like Evil/Live's undersuit or vice versa (with obvious black bits) and they cut the Holy Live Wings

You know what we have very ROUGH road with daiji but all in all this is actually nice build up on paper even tho in nutshell kagero bassically says "its just prank bro" Lol

As form itself i actually like the accent i wish they get rid of Wings if they want to use cape.. the form actually feel "complete" color wise
Also in context compared to form like say Orthors Vulcan this is feel much needed in context of story...

I actually like if there is an arc of 2nd rider that even tho the form is kitbash they actually have form to represent their determination like Mach or Daiji here..

Compered to like say Necrom or our green boy in pyjamas last season even tho they have an arc but there is no new form to actually represent that feels like wasting time... although Necrom still got a recolored gun wish it should be more

While I think there may have been maybe one or two more episodes than there should have been where the show simply reminds you that Daiji is on a downward spiral instead of doing anything with it, I honestly think overall and perhaps moreso as it got going, I got pretty invested in his arc and his descend into further darkness. The build-up might not always been engaging, but I was usually intrigued by where it was going.

And I'm sad to say I found this resolution to be pretty disappointing. For a long time now, for months now even, Daiji's stance was that he was convinced that humanity serving Gifu is the better and safer option than resisting him. But the specific angle that makes the crux of this episode, that Daiji needs to believe he can still change in spite of his past mistakes... Unless I missed something, that only was a thing that was first brought up maybe one or two episodes ago? So we never actually addressed the reasons why he turned to Akashi's side in the first place.

And it was also only about two or so episodes ago where Hiromi started feeling like he had a big stake in Daiji's whole situation, so his part here doesn't feel great either. Why is it Hiromi who ultimately brings back Daiji from the brink as opposed to Daiji's sibilings, or his father, or his mother?

Well, obviously I know the reason all those things turned out this way is so this episode could accomplish two big things that fans wanted to see in one go. Hiromi transforming into Demons, and Kagerou coming back (and granted, the second thing is something I really wanted too)... I suppose it is kinda funny how the show is straight-up admitting that everything about Holy Live's debut, that whole plot where one of the two sides had to beat the other, was a bad idea and never really should have been done (by the script) in the first place!

Oh yeah, and this is all represented by a new form and it sucks. It would have already been hard enough for me to be excited for the hundredth ugly kitbash in a row, but for all the dramatic weight they try to give it, Eviltylive (no complaints about the name though) is so absolutely Nothing. Even just using Evil's unmodified head would have more visual impact that just using a marker to add some lines to the parts we've already been looking at for 20+ weeks.

And also just like Thunder Gale, for a form that's a fusion of two guys, its really just the one guy but the other says a line at some point to remind you he's there. Well, at least that one sentence Kagerou speaks all to himself in the form is actually already more than what Vice ever got when Thunder Gale was used.

Another minor yet really disappointing thing is that out of nowhere, Gifu actually speaks?! All this time, I was so sure that it was a deliberate decision to leave its true nature and any possible personality a mystery, in order to subvert the idea that Gifu is just the evil force Akashi believed it was who only wanted humanity destroyed. But... Then this episode just has it speak in a super typical menacing villain voice, and have it clearly state that its motivation is to destroy humanity because they're bad. Wow. Great. Why did I ever bother expecting anything else. :thumbdown

I think this episode kinda sucks actually? And I no longer care about the story at this point whatsoever??

Some other random things that I wanna get out there while its on my mind:

Vice gets abducted by Gifu and nobody cares, wow! Yeah he turns up alright, but Ikki had no reason to think that was going to happen!

Sakura gets thrown into the rather sad role of begging the boys not to fight, even though she was the very first one to start swinging and blowing up Daiji when he first started acting out...

I can't believe the Demons suit showed up in the flesh! I was certain it had been torn apart to make Over Demons. Makes me wonder if they always had it lying around, or if they scrapped it back together in a hurry.

Masumi lying in that hospital bed and still wearing the mask and hood is hilarious and makes every dramatic scene with him here look like a(n albeit really funny) joke.

I.. think it's cuz they're trying to circle back in the beginning of Hiromi's character where he felt that Daiji turning into Evil (get it?) was his responsibility and thus had to be the one to stop him.

Thing is, we don't really get to have scenes of Daiji and Hiromi actually interacting together, the best I can recall is when Hiromi confided in Daiji about his past and Daiji just blew him off, which is uh.... Not great.

Had Daiji been the one to initiate the duel in the first place and also maybe frame it as actually being an inherently bad thing would have made me lenient towards this arc.

Speaking of this arc and Evilyty Live as well. The production notes state that the form wasn't planned at all and Daiji's arc originally was supposed to end right at that duel.

While I personally think ending it there and the rest just building Daiji's character and his relationships with the cast would be great, I'm not sure if it can even be handled if I personally think they didn't handle this current one we have either. So, I guess Daiji was just destined to be a very 'meh' character.

And you know what? Daiji's Arc being pivoted is all the better for it.

I still feel like in some ways, Hiromi sort of carved away any kind of meaningful stuff regarding the Fenix/Rider things from both Daiji and George, so they had less to work with when he just left. So like, Daiji was very much only ever going to be a sort of "there" character. Especially given his character at it's base core is very much him wanting to gravitate towards Fenix because of his sibling issues of wanting to stand out. And there's just not much to work with in Fenix when Hiromi sorta had all that already.

I assume Bandai when they made the Holy Live toy thought it'd be a fun contrast of like having an Angel Rider, and the crew seeing this toy realized "Oh i guess we have to get rid of Evil now" given there was no other thing for Evil. And then they realized "Wait in the context of everything that happens, this doesn't feel right". And like, given everything that happens immediately after Holy Live, uh yeah they were right to pivot completely.

Say what you will but the fact that people have been heatedly debating about Daiji and stuff is an actual good thing. Like it was hard for me to care about Daiji as a secondary because he... just did nothing aside from take orders from Fenix. When he finally started to go full tilt lawbro righteous and actively downward spiral, that's when I'm like, "I can see this new vision". I'd rarely see Daiji discussion at all before they made this shift. Really took him into the literal direction of the Twosidriver where he can be the best or worst character depending on the situation in the eyes of some people.

It's Episode 44!

-Hey so like. I get why it's happening (middle and youngest siblings are commonly closer to each other, the family being torn apart is probably The Worst for the youngest sibling) but like. anyone else get, uh, Bad Vibes from Sakura's involvement with the whole rouge Daiji plotline? Like, it kinda feels like the someone writing (almost) forgot Sakura's a Rider when it comes to these scenes and not the typical non-Rider heroine. (And not to mention, Lovekov is especially sensitive to when Sakura falters/has a weak will, and yet we didn't get anything from her either from this arc) Like idk man, the show literally threw her off a bridge this episode in order to resolve Daiji's whole thing without her, and she's the only member of the family whom Daiji doesn't really get a real moment with Sakura for this arc (he's obssessed with taking down Ikki, we had the whole Destream ep ending, this episode he spefically wanted to say goodbye to Yukimi before contracting with Gifu). It's a little weird to me.

-Gifu actually speaks! After all this time of teasing and hinting what Gifu's motive might be, it's.........not that particularly interesting, nor reflects upon any of the themes is an interesting way? Gifu eats the energy that makes up demons, so Earth is like one big farm to him. However, humanity's growing malice will eventually lead them to self-destructing, so Giff plans to *squints* re-sturcture things so that humans do nothing but mass-birth demons all day, while the inheritors of his genes will have the privledge to ruling the earth alongside him. (Do note that he does bring up the "humanity will mass-produce demons" thing immediately after "return humanity to nothingness, save for the Igarashi family". How will that giant human farm thing work out- Oh. I don't think I want to talk about this anymore!)

-Junya Komatsu continues to be one of the best actors in the show, change my mind. As iconic as it was, Hiromi swearing away his catchphrase is real good. He can't just scarifice himself for justice, because there's people here that need him! So no more "laying down one's life", we're "devoting one's life" now! I will say I was pretty anxious about the execution of slapping a belt on Hiromi again, but ngl this was decent.

-........Ok. I'll talk about Daiji's stuff, I guess. So, to summarize things post Kage v Daiji, Kagerou was getting weaker, so it's time for one last duel with Daiji, in which he departs some thoughts for Daiji ("Stop being so weak-willed. Become so resolute in your ideals to the point of viciousness, then strike!....or something like that.) Holy Live is born, now roll the "Holy Live Jobbing Complication" in which Daiji sticking harder to his ideals (in a real rash manner) isn't working! It actually gets people hurt! (see: Akemi, the dozens of folks earsed by Gifu during the airship crash) So, thinking that it'd just be better to submit to Gifu than cause more carnage for everyone. But....that isn't the right answer, either! But he can't go back, because that'd be betraying Kagerou's "final" lesson to him (or something like that!) So he we are, 7 billion sibling fights + two neat dad fights later, Daiji.....*recongizes* that he's fucked up and done horrid shit, he wants to change his ways, but doesn't know if he can (or at least, doesn't know how without making Kagerou's "scarifice" in vain) But dont worry lol, Daiji recongizing what a ridiclously messy human being he is, and actually admitting He needs Help, is what brings Kagerou back. Because recongizing and facing your past/flaws is the only way you'll be able to move forward.

-Does this Daiji's arc work for me, now that's it's over? Eh...It's fine enough? Like a lot of things in Revice, it's a interesting idea with undercooked bits and frustrating execution here and there. However, considering the production notes for this episode revealed that Evilytylive wasnt planned and their arc was initally supposed to end at the Kage v Daiji fight before the production team realized how that kinda goes aganist the themes of the work, it's at least a better ending than simply leaving things there at Episode 26? (Idk how late into the show they changed that, but they mentioned it gave the planning team a rough time so probably a little later than a story change that influences toys n shit like this would be?)

-Anyway, cool fight to seal Gifu, the family's happy, Kagerou gets to hang with the fam, everyone's happy, good ending! (Please ignore the very obvious tease at Olteca's return, Masumi dying, and the very ominous teaser paired with the fact that we've still got a confirmed 6 episodes to go!)

Honestly I kinda agree with Enchilada on the Daiji arc we got being better. As a reminder, the duel with Kagerou took place in episode 26, before Thunder Gale was even hinted at being a thing. The idea that Daiji was going to spend the entire rest of the show from that point jobbing without any point or build up to something would've been awful.

Yes I'm aware they would've tried to have him hang out and interact with other characters like Rei said, but considering how after Olteca's defeat the show slowly moves everyone else into Weekend to fight Giff, I don't see Daiji having a lot of fruitful interactions in that scenario.

That said, did I like what we actually got? Sorta. There were moments that I couldn't wrap my head around like Daiji returning to Fenix after Akaishi's press confrence where Gifu destroyed the Fenix Helicarrier. But overall like cosmicrescend0 said, at least this arc ends in a more thematically fitting way than the duel.

Hiromi became Demons again. Cool. It's not about everyone seeing it coming, it's just seeing it happen again that matters.
I'm also glad it was Hiromi that got through to Daiji. Ikki is so used to forgiving himself for meddling that it's like breathing to him, but Daiji isn't so used to it. So take it from someone who basically fucked his life up to impart that lesson and actually get through to him.

The conflict between Daiji and his family is really bad, boring and quite forced.
But the end of this conflict is really good especially because Hiromi's intervention. :D

It's been ages since I have posted something in this thread. I was more of a bystander and just reading carefully what other people's opinion. However, thanks to Hiromi's words to Daiji, I finally mister my courage and confidence again to finally post my opinion in this forum. The timing could not be perfect since this is the episode where Daiji comes back home. So, as starters I just want to say : "ただいま"

I always felt something was amiss when the show insists to credit Daiji as Kamen Rider Holy Live instead of just simply Kamen Rider Live. This made me thought Holy Live was NOT a simple form change but rather an entirely different Rider than Live. Watching the Battle Familia trailer with both Live and Evil in it made me realize how much I missed the green undersuit of those Riders. Holy Live was a good suit but Daiji's constant usage of it made me felt I kinda miss both normal Evil and Live in the same manner when Saber rarely used Brave Dragon from Primitive to Xross Saber arc.

If you hadn't already known, I LOVE Eviltylive! Not only it propels the Holy Live's suit, which I say it again the suit is missing something. This is the kind of repaint that works really well and even better than Xross Saber, which I quite like too. Giving some black accents to the already clean Holy Live and then adding the Evil/Live's iconic green undersuit, it made the best possible perfect Rider suit for Daiji dan Kagerou. Mind you, I would be okay if they just use back their Bat Genomes again but the production went above and beyond. Seeing Eviltylive's suit somewhat gives a fuzzy warm feeling that reminds me Daiji AND Kagerou's back! It's sort of a 'welcome home' for those characters.

I might be in the minority here but I think Daiji is literally the best character in the show during this latter half of the series. I already enjoy Daiji during the early days even when the show didn't really focus on him. When the second half of the show now primarily focus on Daijis's character development, I was estatic. The show already establishes that the Igarashi sibling works the best with their demon. Without Kagero, Daiji couldn't be the best of himself. Him struggling during Akaishi's machination was the perfect way to show Daiji needs Kagero. The way to this episode may not be the best one and it was pretty rough but it could be argued that Daiji was fumbling because he lost a part of himself.

In addition, the long-awaited return of Hiromi Kadota as Demons was worth the wait. Hiromi was the perfect person to trigger Daiji's return to the good side. They might not have many interactions before but it's believable that Hiromi's sense of justice managed to rub Daiji during the course of the show. I almost cry when Hiromi said to Daiji they could always to get back up even when they fail. That words feel so powerful because Hiromi had so many rough failures too. A huge example was in the first ep where Hiromi failed to transform and it crushed all of Daiji's confidence. You could the whole ordeal of Live and Evil was even possible because of Hiromi's failure and it was nice to see Hiromi took responsibility and made amends with Daiji.

I could ramble long and on about how awesome and perfect this episodes was. But to sum it up, this is a great example of how to make a good episode for the characters and the debut of a new form. I must say I was impressed of how Takayuki Shibasaki-san managed to direct this episode really well. Dude managed to once again introduce a new repaint form but with so many meanings behind it, great characterization, and dynamic action sequences with the earworm Mirage Mirror by Wataru Hyuga, not unlike with Xross Saber last year. I'm now kinda even more bummed that Giffard Rex's debut could have been as awesome as Evilitylive if only Shibasaki-san was given enough good materials. Once he was given good story and materials, he could maximize an already awesome episode like this into perfection.

Now, now... This episode could have been even more perfect if they credited Mirage Mirror in the opening. Man I miss the time when Insert songs were credited in the opening...

おかえり :)

As a big fan of Daiji in my own right, I have to agree that I found this episode to be a very satisfying conclusion for his arc. To an extent, I understand why Daiji's development rubs a lot of people the wrong way, especially lately, but there hasn't been a single moment in Revice where I wasn't interested in where he was heading, and I don't feel like the show has ever done anything with him that truly let me down.

Haaaaah, what a mess this show is. Don't get me wrong, I like everything that has been happening... on paper. I still think Daiji's little breakdown was the most interesting thing going on in the show lately. In implementation, there is a lot left to be desired. If anything, I feel like making Daiji the final villain and making the arc a little longer would have been good. Hiromi's role was nice though, and I liked how he could speak to Daiji from his own experiences. I'm probably not going to go too in-depth here since the show is close to wrapping up and I'll dump my final thoughts in the last episode thread. Still, I find myself snarking out loud at the show lately, which probably isn't a great sign.

same as much asd I've complained it would've been way worse if we got a generic arc of Giff steamrolling through everythung while everyone spends 30-(With the exception of the ultimate form debuts) jobbing

The end of the "edgy" Daiji arc, at last.

Other than self-righteousness, Daiji here is also about someone who felt that he had come too far, thus he's left with nothing but to continue his self-righteous path. So Genta's words did reach him, but after he's crossed the line like being ready to sic monsters to civilians. This may result in another part of how this conflict can be dragged, but "I've come too far" is a common outcome for someone who had realized what they did is wrong, like feeling they've come too far to deserve redemption, pointless to turn around at that point, or due to realizing that everything they sacrifice was for nothing unless they sacrifice even more to reach their goal which requires to go through with it. In Daiji's case, it's about how he copes with his previous failure, of which the lesson here, other than to forgive yourself before, is about how failures aren't the end of the world. It seems that Daiji, being the most serious, achiever-oriented, and uptight of the Igarashis, has an upbringing that forbids failure, which gotta have Hiromi convince him that failure is ok and you should just try again. It's something that gotta be taught from early on, and me myself also had some of this failure-intolerant feelings too.

Daiji almost making a contract with Giff had Ultimate Vice being absorbed through Giff portal, and turns out that Giff's voice/language can be heard in his own dimension. Now this is a proper introduction of who Giff personally is and what he'd want. It seems that Akaishi had some truth about how Giff like how he wanted to keep humans alive and saw the Igarashis as his family, thus Akaishi also refrained from killing humans or especially Igarashis, until his defeat at ep. 41. I wonder if Giff terminated Akaishi's contract due to his decision to kill off the Igarashis to take Daiji for himself. But of course the motive is full on malicious, he wants them as his food source by producing devils. And what changed his mind was how the Igarashis bonded with their devils and the other humans can self-destruct in their devil producing, thus he'd want to kill all humans except Igarashis and repopulate the world with those derived from his blood. Previously there's Tasuke using Nazi salute... and, the real Nazi here is Giff who only wants a world with his bloodline.

Now it's clear the old, complete Daiji is back, and without being blinded by self-righteousness, he'd process the current situation differently, he's tactical like the reliable younger brother Ikki knew, he'd think up ways to deal with problems like Giff, even as Ultimate Revi informs that basic attacks don't work on Giff, of which if it's Kagerou-less Daiji hearing it, it'd further increase his vow to eliminate Ikki as. Shows that resigning into cynical perceptions of reality isn't the level-headed way many think (including Kagerou-less Daiji mocking Ikki), level-headed is finding solutions towards problems. For Kagerou's return, so far he treats it casually, and being really prideful to know that Daiji depends on him. I'd have to see it later if Kagerou's redeemed here but keeps his unpleasant personality, or that Kagerou still needs to be kept in check (but had easier solution now like the curry).

The George and Hiromi part showed a difference between how George (as in, the demon-influenced George, according to ep. 43) previously dealt with him, and how he does it now. Instead of gloating about Hiromi being a guinea pig, he now solemnly warns Hiromi over his body condition. Instead of guilt-tripping Hiromi over Daiji, now he just asks if Hiromi would be successful in changing Daiji, the question shows some doubt but isn't used to offend him but hoping for the best for this situation. Instead of mocking Hiromi's heroism (despite being a KR fanboy), he now tried to make Hiromi promise to not throw his life away carelessly. Someone treating another cruelly shouldn't be disguised or romanticized as 'caring deep down', and if they make excuses, it shouldn't be easily bought by people (the audience especially). What George did here is, actual showing of being caring, albeit stern, to Hiromi, but not when Hiromi's in Fenix. Though perhaps the part of George being given Masumi's inner demon now gave stronger proof that George wasn't good before, as sloppy the execution was. Though George felt betrayed by Masumi again, it seems that his words aren't as harsh as I expected, only "senior citizen", and was phrased more like pragmatic time dividing.

Hiromi's back as Demons, and he now fights to survive as well, successfully. He of course still fights to help the Igarashis, in not letting Ikki and Sakura carry all the burden and bringing back Daiji, but as Daiji said long ago, self-preservance is important as you can't save anyone when you're dead. So Hiromi gotta think of surviving, which'd be done if he beat (or in this case, tied) his opponent into submission so that he can u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶k̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶j̶u̶t̶s̶u̶ convince them better without being threatened. If it succeed, would be a good outcome for all parties involved. I guess this scene rather worked despite of lack of onscreen interaction between Hiromi and Daiji when they're at Fenix, as the focus is about Daiji's remaining problem of being failure intolerant and Hiromi gave appropriate words as well as having right experience to deal with him.

Though despite the above, the fight between Demons and Holy Live is perhaps more impactful than Over Demons' fight as Hikaru was like an extra muscle for Weekend and the Ushijimas in general are wasted, which'd include the 'rivalry' against Akaishi/Gigademos. But in terms of performance, I would say previous Over Demons fight is leagues better (for those who's still underwhelmed to Over Demons, due to suit or particularly Hikaru hate), it was the time Over Demons finally showed its abilities. Though of course Hiromi didn't have Genomixes for Demons here but the fight with him too is a standard hand to hand beatdown, other than the finisher, albeit with context Hiromi'd make it great that it goes against Holy Live (who beat another Demons - Orteca before in his debut).

The other fight which is the showdown against Giff, other than Over Demons, I'd say that finally Ultimate Revi and Vice also shows off their capabilities in rather satisfying way here, Giff's ability they inherited here plays an important part, that they can create portals like Giff does (that trapped Ultimate Vice before), and with Evilytylive (what a mouthful name, but the suit looks sick, better than Holy Live), working together (Vice still being attention whore, or being 'possessive', regarding handshake between Ultimate Revi and Evilytylive to celebrate the return of the real brother) to seal Giff, of which ofc it'd not be the end of Giff (dunno why they think so), as Giff can create portals himself, or... Orteca's return, as the reveal of Giff sacrifices being trapped in a bubble, would play a part on it. Hopefully Orteca doesn't return to be redeemed.

Hey! Demons' back! Oh, and Kagerou, too... I jest, of course, I'm excited to have Kagerou back!

Funny thing here is that I think had they did Daiji's arc better in the previous episodes in this arc, this episode still would have worked (or at least better). Heck, I feel like Giff could have remained a statue up until this point where he's actually being active, and you'd quite frankly have a better reception of why he's the big boss.

And Evility Live... Thank gosh, we're not listening to "Wings to fry!" anymore (I jest again). But this is an amazing suit, the best of both worlds (kind of), Evil's color scheme, Holy Live's nice suit, and a cape! I already love this form and will absolutely get a figure.

Great to see the original Demons suit return, with Hiromi in the reigns, but boy, did the only thing that didn't have me thrilled was how lackluster Giff's fight was, especially after his talk with Vice. Also, it looks like Olteca's going to be returning (the best villain of this season).

I'd also like to say, Masumi's death still had a pretty solid impact, even with George's Engrish, which would normally have me crack a smile, and yet I didn't, really hitting the emotional level there... Until they showed the final scene with the Igarashi family reuniting (minus Genta, and with some of George's Rider belts in the background).

Next Episode: "You thought the final boss was beaten? You've still got 6 episodes left!"