Kamen Rider Geats Episode 15- "Conspiracy VI: Kamen Rider Qualifications!" Discussion
 

Three Riders remain in the Conspiracy Tournament, but only one can become the new Deity...

I wonder if Michinaga's death is gonna stick for a little bit. Even if it's obviously not permanent, we are around that time of year for a main cast member to bite it.

I somehow knew that eventually there was gonna be a round where Geats is the main target, I thought they'd save that for the endgame.

Shame Michinaga bites it, he would've loved this round.

Don't forget Keiwa's wish for the defeated riders to come back to life. So he might win this game.

Damn, it's a week early! Talk about subverting expectations. Ace's elimination and now this. Michinaga's death may have been his own fault, but still, his last words were no less tragic to hear. Despite hating Ace, he believed in his encouragement that he could win someday as long as he continued to stand and fight. He felt betrayed by him when that didn't work out, accusing him of lying like he always does. Michinaga had the strength to win, but that's as far as he could go alone, as he refused the help he ultimately needed. Now, ironically, his only hope of that encouragement being proven true is for his rival to win once more in his place. While I don't condone his destructive means, he was willing to risk his life and happiness to get justice for his friend and I have to praise his bravery for committing to that. In the end, Michinaga was a Kamen Rider.

Just as I expected, Ace is Kamen Rider Geats as long as he breathes. He doesn't even need to appeal for his qualifications, as he was never disqualified. The fact that Giroli didn't expect this outcome even though he was the one who granted that desire makes him look like even more of an idiot. All of his attempts to get rid of Ace are completely in vain, simply due to how he never considers how people will react to what he does. To emphasize Ace's return, Geats' fight scene was awesome and especially hype due to the third ever appearance of MagnumBoost! Seems to be a once a season thing. Win doesn't even get mentioned in this episode after Glare brainwashed him though, which I'd expect more suspicion about from the others, like how is Giroli able to get away with that?

So Michinaga is out the hard way huh. I guess he won't return except if Keiwa wins DGP somehow.

Im pleasantly surprised with Tsumuri attitude. She doesn't like Ace that much but her respect for the rules is greater.

Speaking about Tsumuri. It would be so funny if before the end of the show she learns she is related to Ace somehow after the funny scenes she had as Ace sister.
Im saying this because, Ace mother, the previous navigator is called Mitsume. And Mitsu can mean 3 in japanese. "Tsu" in Tsumuri can be a pun on "Two" and Ace, well, is number 1. I don't think the pattern is a coincidence at this point.

Now that Keiwa realizes there's a link between the dead (at least as we know it) Riders and Jyamato, he's gonna be more motivated than ever to see out his wish, especially if the dead Riders can remember their time as Jyamato and provide further context for what's going on.

I wonder if the monkey paw to Keiwa's wish is the dead Riders come back, but as Jyamato Riders on an opposing team. I totally see Azuma coming back with a intensified desire to "crush all Riders".

Geats' version of Takahashi's Christmas twist. And obviously Michinaga will return later. He IS a zombie... who rises from the dead.

Buffa is one of the strongest DGP Riders other than Geats, the 2nd one at the beginning of the series, and Tycoon & Na-Go has reached that level too while ago. They can take on most of what DGP throws at them, but so far, none of the Riders other than Geats can stand a chance against the final boss, including those 3. Though this is also a reminder to not underestimate Shirowe, who also can be someone who only final boss was too much for him.

Other than their similar entry to fight as previous episode, the 3 Riders' line before they face the final boss also sums up their characters, of which Michinaga focusing to beat up monsters signify his destructive and hostile competitive nature, while Keiwa focusing to rescue people obviously displays his selfless and protective nature, and Neon claiming both should be done, perhaps it's her balancing between being competitive while not wanting anything bad to happen to anyone in the process including her competitors with her shouting Michinaga's name here. Like Keiwa, Neon lately is also actively rescuing civilians, and yeah, for non-Keiwa players, the question of them doing it only for the civilian rescue points is real, but I'd think Neon's is also genuine based on her helping Keilow, of which that one wouldn't give her any benefit.

Seems that Keiwa and Neon not getting their confidence back after beating the Jamato Riders make sense here, as now, they can't beat a Jamato Rider even when tag teaming it, different results from before. And it seems to be due to it evolving according to how Buffa says a higher-ranked Jamato he fought is significantly stronger, other than Keiwa being all confused. In contrast to those 2, Michinaga is overconfident instead and is hell-bent to one-up Ace by winning the game without him, and his recklessness finally paid him the price here by getting himself outright killed. The Jamato Riders' speeches, it only imitates what has been said by the players, but dunno if it has actual consciousness or that the speeches are all just coincidences, but they're limited to repeating it like Bugster Saki from Ex-Aid.

Now this seems to further explain why Keiwa gives Ace his Desire Driver before, both in ep. 13 and 14, that it's the Riders feeling safer to have Ace fight, leading to Geats using all the available Buckles (including Zombie) to finish off the final boss here. Seems passive from the action standpoint, but those 2 are still also dealing with other issues, like Keiwa trying to get to know what the Jamatos actually are, and Neon inspecting potential nepotism in DGP based on her return. Other than Ace revealing that Girori is Game Master, them resorting into breaking into DGP is mostly themselves instead of following Ace. And even with no fighting, Neon insisted that they aren't strong enough yet, which means they don't necessarily give up either and would try to get stronger so one day they may be able to face the final boss.

Another similarity to Ryuki, in how some feels the secondary Riders are the actual primary Riders, and the primary Riders being the one to make a dent in the game creator's plans, it's even done in a similar way, of Ace stuffing himself with notes in his room, like Shinji stuffing his office and room with notes after he lost his memories due to Time Vent before he can warn people, so that he ends up punching Odin. Here Ace makes a series of notes to lead him into Jamar Area, so he can regain his memories. Seems that only current unfulfilled wishes that changed the person, as Ace is still narcissistic after his elimination, and his current wish is only becoming DGP Staff. Though Ace consistently showed concern to people around him to his crew and as he enters the Jamar Area, perhaps this is similar to how he acted in Labyrinth game too but without DGP memories.

Other than his treatment to Ace, Girori outwardly seems to be 'encouraging' to his Riders, as well as standing up to them against Archimedel who roots (literal too) for Jamatos, displaying trust in their abilities to save the world. But yeah this can be something that hides something more sinister, in how he deliberately set up Keiwa and Neon to fight Ace in the next episode. The DGP rule at the end is also heavily on his favor, after the previous rule implying that it'd be his downfall. Other than how the trio is now more attached than ever, with a nod to ep. 1 when Ace carries them away (and they can win games without harming the others), it also seems unlikely those 2 can beat the Rider who beat a final boss they can't beat, but that would likely happen for Keiwa to bring Michinaga back.

Thinking about it, Michinaga being the one who is killed is fitting for his Zombie theme, as obviously his return from the dead is inevitable. Otherwise, yeah his death is his fault, and it'd still be tragic (there are some deaths caused by one's own fault but they can deserve to live and learn), but I never got into a right vibe of framing recklessness as bravery. I know ep. 10 before had this inspiring Ace, but this is similar to for example, governments who frame victims (due to risk involved or them having no care to their well-being) as martyrs to cover up their mistakes, normalizing throwing away lives in the name of 'bravery' and them escaping responsibility.

I'd like for Michinaga's clear shortcomings to be more acknowledged tbh, as much as kind-hearted character's naivety or indecisiveness. There has been some people comparing him and.. Kaito Kumon, another Rider who is destructive while also having sense of honor and keeps being honest and determined throughout, of which also has similar (can be ignored) shortcomings in never asking for help with his wounds, advice, or people to share their strength with him, keeping him in this spiral of failure, and even still being in denial of acknowledging camaraderie for survival even after seeing it.

His first wish also makes it expected that it won't be his end, though didn't expect it to be done mid-game. His first wish is the most ideal one to get through DGP, basically giving him infinite wishes too to try various things, but with some effort that he can solve with his skill. And I agree, other than Ace's intelligence, this is also Girori being idiotic. Like he's just so shortsighted on his plan. Even viewers would know that too that Ace being eliminated wouldn't be his end, as he can be chosen again as a DGP participant from his first wish. Not to mention, Girori didn't even notice Ace's writings on his wall, unlike Yui and Okubo in Ryuki regarding Shinji's notes (albeit it obviously fills his entire office/room). His plan can be fixed by simply probably planning on Ace's murder as a human (though he's still a capable fighter), such as stabbing him in his sleep.

Yeah, this fight is awesome, after the series gives many well-choreographed fight, blows the ep. 1 one out of the water. As Geats outclass any Riders by far, this is exemplified by him using Boost in an even more advanced way than Na-Go in ep. 4. He also exemplifies Command Twin Buckle's abilities to get through the final boss' attacks from various sides. Just that weirdly Fever Shot Buckle is still unused even by him (should be with Zombie). With how the Jamatos are evolving and Archimedel thinks this one is ready to rule the world, this final boss seems to be harder than previous ones for any Riders, except for Geats. But this game seems to be designed without Geats in mind, thus I'd still say the hardest game was Musical Chairs to strip the main equipment of the Riders, of which Geats is invincible only with it.

So far, Tsumuri seems to play Yua's role in Geats (both are the secondary female leads), though probably is a more active one. She's a part of (probably) baddies, but she's the one that still has some conscience and shows disapproval to her superiors. And in an ironic twist, now she's the one who insists Riders' wishes to be honored to Girori trying to deny Ace his rights as Rider, compared to previously where Tsumuri rejects Ace's wish. Albeit Niram so far is the one that gives me Gai vibes, instead of her direct boss Girori (of which some suspects Glare will receive similar continuous beating as Thouser). Niram previously claims he's there for balance, but he seems to have clear interest on Geats, and talks about realism as his worldview so far.

Michinaga was killed in order to increase the vocabulary of the Jamato riders, otherwise the previous two dead didn’t say much:) And so he will obviously return, but perhaps on the other side, like a kind of Jamato-human hybrid. Speaking of the main character, what distinguishes Ace from Tendo and Tsukasa is that his coolness is not just a given, but lies in the mind and thinking through the situation. However, it is interesting how the situation with the hunt for Geats will be resolved. I think it was the intervention from above and the elimination / downgrading of Girori, because it's too early for tragedy. Well, or the show will surprise again and next year Ace will write Keiwa's wish, and Jamato riders will quote not only Buff, but also Tacoon and Na-Go.
By the way, did Keiwa change his green color to blue? Apparently, he felt like a real secondary rider :)

Seems to me it was a really good idea, in terms of dramatic tension, to reveal that Geats can't be eliminated. The way things were, nobody else could win a round of the DGP because the title of the show is "Kamen Rider Geats." Now that Geats can't be permanently eliminated - which was always a given due to the show's format - it'll feel more like a competition because now, other Riders can have their wishes come true.

I'm very curious about how the next parts will play out. I fully expect Tycoon to win in the next episode. Earlier in the series, we were told that some wishes cannot be granted, and I'm going to guess this is when that will pay off. I suspect Tycoon will finally see the DGP as an outright enemy if his wish isn't granted.

Yeah, Michinaga will probably return, but I really hope he won't, since I don't think he's very interesting. Neon basically tore down his whole story with a sentence in this episode. That boy was basic.

I guess at least now, we have some context for the Premium Bandai Revolve Change set including a Buffa head with a broken horn. I wonder if Buffa Zombie will be a Jyamato Rider.

If other dead Riders do return, I guess that would explain why all the Riders who've died so far have had different-shaped helmets (as opposed to repaints).

I he comes back, it'll be because the Gardner hasn't yet planted his ID core. I'll be very surprised if other dead Riders will return, since the show is now being more explicit about the "shattered ID cores are literally used as seeds to grow Jyamato" thing. Jyamato Riders - who've been killed again - probably don't qualify. That would also imply something pretty dark about why Ace's wish to find his mother can't be granted.

Did anyone else find it really weird that PunkJack didn't appear at all in this episode and nobody took note of his absence? He's still in the opening credits even though it was edited to remove Ace. We never saw him get a "Mission Failed" or a "Retired," so his status is super-murky. He wasn't in the next-episode preview, but the longer-term plan is unclear. Who knows? Maybe this round of the DGP will be won by a Giroli-controlled PunkJack. Given the in-diagesis audience's reaction in the past few episodes, I suspect that won't go over well. I wonder how many episode it'll take for Giroli too face the consequences for his rule-breaking...

The broken horn helmet came from the final episode of the Encounter arc.

Wow, I didn't even notice.

Nice observation!

I feel like Takahashi's works have a habit of making good points delivered through ambiguous phrasing, which can cause those points to be lost in translation. My take on the moral about recklessness and bravery from Episode 9 was that Neon and Michinaga chose recklessness cause it was still better than the alternative of giving up on their dreams and accepting their unhappy lives the way they were. In this episode though, yeah, there was a very clear difference between bravery (retreating to come up with a plan and working together to accomplish it) and recklessness (what Michinaga did). Of course, the whole thing about making martyrs is applicable to Bushido culture in general.

Well, Michinaga only wanted to crush all Kamen Riders, which was due to losing his friend to the DGP. While Kaito wanted to commit genocide of humanity (like Kanato), which was due to a single flashback in his V-Cinema where he got abused by his father. So I'd say Michinaga is still the more heroic and frankly more justified of those two for acting the way he did. But sure, his flaws like you said are ultimately what got him killed, so we can't ignore that either. I want to remember him fairly for both his good and bad points.

But then Giroli would risk compromising the secret of the DGP's existence, as fans across the world of the Star of the Stars of the Stars would seek justice and the truth of why his own father would murder him in such a cowardly way. The management would probably just fire Giroli at that point to detach themselves from his infamy. I think Ace knew what he was doing with these desires to deter such plots against him.

Jyamato: "Curse you, Geats!"

Geats: "Join the queue."

He must be trying to assert his secondary-ness after Toei put his Core ID in a campaign.

When actually Tycoon got the actually appropriate color for being the opposite/tanuki to Geats' red/kitsune... green is red's complementary color :lol

Oh, so you'd still view retreating as bravery (if making further future plans ofc which I agree), as I thought it'd be a cowardly move in your eyes, based on you throwing shade at hesitating to enter a creepy basement in Revice ep. 17 (which to me doesn't seem like backing away but just thinking for a while how to go through it), and I thought by this someone ought to always throw yourself into danger or action no matter what the circumstances (Michinaga here) or else they're "cowardly". I don't even know if you're also throwing shade to Keiwa and Neon here, of which Neon emphasized that they are not strong yet which can sound like said working on plan, to get eventually strong enough to win.

My point is actually this, other character types, like the kind-hearted and good-natured ones can be talked down by the audience as being (or even just exaggerating following flaws) weak, naive, dumb, crybaby (if they display emotions), and for those who started off weak/underdog, even later people can cling into the status quo of the part of them being incompetent at the beginning. While the rough and mean characters are played up by the audience as someone who is sensible, tough, badass, realistic (playing up cynicism as this), and mature, who is always right but misunderstood, or "mistreated by the writers", thus it was my point about them having their shortcomings ignored, or even 'praising' them as 'actually not having plot armor' unlike others instead of acknowledging their fault in their failure/demise. The audience also can view growing hateful, resentful, or negative as growing mature instead by this.

This happens when people brand Kaito as the one most clear-headed and who actually gets shit done and mocking others whom they see only ruin things due to never listening to him (yeah, Kaito's the one that got some people justifying him, NOT Micchy, though for most of the series Kaito spent his time as an anti-hero so this feels similar to many other secondary Riders) or only met his end due to his non-main protagonist role despite being the 'sensible' one. Or to a lesser extent, probably when Keiwa and Neon are insulted for showing vulnerabilities compared to Michinaga going nuts to one-up Ace.

For shortcomings, I also meant like Rider-wise, like acknowledging the reasons Buffa can't measure up to Geats (as he asked) like being a loner, stubborn (extends to reckless), and irrational (e.g. attacking Geats which leads to Knight Jamato getting away) traits, instead of playing it off as only due to Geats being the protagonist with 'plot armor', of which in comparison Riders like Tycoon or Na-Go can be played off as weak even now (including to Buffa, of which some seem to ignore that Buffa stands no chance to final bosses just like them) due to various reasons.

Man, you're right, it's actually really a dumb decision actually to stab him in his sleep. I just thought that Ace as a normal human without DGP makes it easier to finish him off by any plan likely with DGP choosing to not revive him if they can, if they're scared of killing him off in-game that his desires can be an ingredient of an invincible Jamato Rider.

There goes Michinaga. I definitely think Keiwa is winning this round now, though as some have said it definitely feels like there will be catch, whether it is the dead Riders coming back as Jamato or even just Keiwa being unable to forgive himself for killing Geats.

I think a lazer-blasting final boss kaiju is more dangerous than some spooky stairs. Maybe a normal human should think twice before entering places like that, but Little Miss "Invincible" was a Rider, so I thought her retreat in that moment was cowardly and pathetic rather than tactical, when she could have just henshined for protection before descending further. Neon and Keiwa are different, as they were concerned with more than mere self-preservation, they didn't want their lack of confidence to interfere with the critical job of saving the world inside the Jyamar Area and thus they decided that leaving it to Ace was the logical conclusion. They show potential for development, as they're honest about how they feel and they have the will to improve, so eventually they can become as brave as Michinaga and as wise as Ace, as long as they continue to learn and train.

Yeah, got it, so context and bigger picture is involved here (which is good). I can felt wrong previously when defending those 2 as I thought any form of fear is cowardice from that and that I was "promoting non-admirable trait" before.

Though not like they'd have different outcome if they didn't have lack of self-confidence as Michinaga's the one who is presented as (over)confident here and he got killed. Them being braver later is also probably'd be different from Michinaga as they've called out Michinaga's approach several times.

Aside from that, I'd hope that Keiwa giving his Driver to Ace for multiple occassions previously in ep. 13-14 is also based on this, feeling more sure in leaving it to Ace for the mission of collecting all Drivers for Rider's safety, instead of him suddenly being naive again. As at the end he did similar thing of giving his Buckles (instead of Driver). Albeit seems that there are more complaints of him (and Neon) undergoing self-doubt here than his ep. 13-14 decision, and this is the one they see as regression, instead of ep. 13-14, opposite of mine.