Kamen Rider Geats Episode 39- "Genesis I: My Desire Grand Prix!" Discussion
 

Ace recruits Keiwa and Michinaga for a contest to root out remaining Riders and Jyamato.

Watched the last three episodes. Unsubscribe first on the previous two. In general, I liked getting rid of the DGP, although I still think that the number of its employees with incomprehensible hierarchy and powers could be reduced. Ace's final form and abilities are awesome, but the weapon looks rather ridiculous. Eh, a better gunblade than Wizard has not yet appeared in riders. Asa himself came out so well in these two episodes because he had to play something other than calm superiority and indignant screaming. In a conversation with my mother, I almost believed him. But only almost. Whether the actor did not hold out the scene, or I did not have enough attachment to the character. But overall it looked interesting.

In general, the description of the last arc is more like a plot for a V-cinema coming out after the show. By the way, "a world where everyone is happy?". This is the wish of Keiwa in his first game. I remember that he was then severely criticized, but something tells me that these claims will not apply to Geats. For once, Ace can be compared to Tendo, as he asks his sister to cook for himself and completely ignores her wishes. Keiwa's desire to punish the Goddess smacks of obsession. And, even if PunkJack looms in the background, we have to admit that the fifth rider in the show is still Nudge, because he has more screen time.

Like that this episode gives equal and clear focus on the cast, dunno if this answers the complaints for those feeling lately there's only plot and twists.

There's actually more effort and struggle needed for Ace to achieve his new goal now to make everyone happy in the name of his parents. With the starter that he has limits in using his power, like only being able to retrieve Tycoon and Buffa's ID Cores for now, and even then he ends up hungry for that, eating up a bunch of bowls to get himself full too. Tsumuri outright said that there's only much that he can change alone. The stakes are still there then, especially that Ace might be vulnerable to Suel's group when he needs to recharge, and both Mitsume and him seem to have normal human body, they're squishy wizards.

Regarding his actions now, he wants to run his own DGP, and the reason is actually to just wipe out the remaining Jamatos, without giving rewards for those who join him. He seems to really emphasize the no rewards part, I guess likely due to his claim in ep. 8 that no one is going to actually sacrifice themselves for others. He's a realist but that leans to cynicism a bit. And as usual he doesn't tell others how to act and expects people to reach their own moral conclusions, which'd be also why he returns the memories of each Riders as he insists they should decide their own fate, not admins. This'd also mean he foils Michinaga's plan, to end desires and free will to "stop conflict", that he praises in ep. 36 though.

And so far, he's being actually good to others too in pursuit of his current goal, like taking care of the people there and telling them they're safe, but dunno what's he's thinking for now that it has to be a DGP to fight off Jamatos. It's ironically like Beroba, not in vileness ofc, but that both use games as a means to accomplish plans like her using JGP to get Vision Drivers. If he's serious about his current goal, then it means he shouldn't agree on underhanded methods that brought misfortune for unlucky few though, not only from others worse but also himself. If he still agrees, then it means he's an utilitarian.

So far, Ace keeps Tsumuri as his own sidekick, like Samas was to Niramu (and now Suel), of which according to both, the audience and management team has actually left now, but the Grand End hasn't been completed yet. Still a bit confused about the DGP and management being gone, because they do still have to take care of current era to bring Tsumuri as the new Goddess. Or that the DGP now only sends few needed people, like Jit by Samas. Would be the case of 10-minutes retirement for villains (and likely some supporters such as Ziin) to not seriously leaving this era yet, like Win suggested for Suel of course.

By technicality Ace only mentions Tsumuri as the present staff DGP because Win is classified as a former DGP staff instead? According to Win, Ace is pulling a dirty business to not reward the workers, but banter aside, I thought dirty business can be the opposite of them bribing someone so that they'd do their biddings, especially if it's an offer they can't refuse. Though as Ace said, there are still benefits that can be gained from helping a good cause, like happiness that money can't buy. Good causes also can have inherent benefit if it succeeds, though it doesn't necessarily reduce the genuineness of those involved (e.g. those who feel good for doing good deeds). Though Win interacts more with Ace in this scene, seems that Win and Tsumuri are also now consistent partners, of which perhaps should have them discuss over Win's readiness to spill things out vs Tsumuri's secrecy.

The preview summary got me confused over why Keiwa is established as conflicted (along with Michinaga) to join a DGP without reward against still present Jamatos, because, well, he's the boy scout who is about performing good deeds to others to make them happy, his genuineness doesn't need to be questioned. Guess it'd be about how he can't bring back previous people anymore for no reward parts, that he's only limited to preventing that happening again. Fortunately, to me, he doesn't really go apeshit over Mitsume being gone now (albeit he still thinks she should pay for her sins... what are they pulling regarding this), or him learning that Ace is the current God of Creation. But dunno if there'd be still conflict regarding how Tsumuri states Ace's power requires a lot of retired player's desires, and maybe later Keiwa should recognize the limitations of that power established here if the conflict escalates. Though Michinaga of all people is the one who explains to him that Ace may fight alone to atone.

Neon got more presence than I expected in this episode, due to the preview summary leaving her out (but focusing on Keiwa and Michinaga), and the new opening now showing her 4th after Michinaga. So it seems that it's because she can't become a Rider yet with destroyed ID Core. With her memories now returned, she's now dealing with the worst outcome of DezaStar part of being permanently being unable to become Rider. She seems to take it in stride better, albeit she can't get depressed further than now, or probably also because her new wish revolves around everyone else, like her fans and Kyuun, as Keiwa questions what she wants for herself. Her complaint now is only that she's powerless to fight off Jamatos without it.

Her place searching is now about buying an apartment to live alone, but she doesn't go to the future yet. Her unfamiliarity with some things is highlighted again regarding how commoners live, like buying furnitures themselves, and the main dynamic for her with Sara here, who would help her shop and become her guide in teaching the ways commoners live. Though there are no comedic bits regarding this part that may can be executed. Now it's Neon's turn to hug Sara, and perhaps get her eyes opened more regarding how far someone can care for her. And here now she refers to Michinaga by his Rider name, not by human name. Her learning the news of her father being arrested for bribing governments to keep Jamatos secret, but Kurama zaibatsu losing power now as the DGP leaves, wonder if she'd learn the machinations of how her father and DGP work, especially regarding how wishes work in her being one.

Wonder if the premise of the DGP having no rewards now, other than Michinaga's conflicted status to join now, would be used to challenge Michinaga's bleak view of the Riders later with now that there are clear proof that there are Riders who'd genuinely do good deeds here. Other than him barging in to Keiwa's house without permission, he interacts rather amicably with him here, including praising his place. The preview summary really got me worried about him being lumped with Keiwa against fighting Jamatos, and seemingly get away scot free, based on ep. 36 of him being depicted as caring (by Ace), though at least for now he isn't shown suddenly charging to Jamatos to defend people like Keiwa and Neon do (no scenes of Win doing that yet too for now either).

And it puts a question mark when freaking Beroba's the one who tries to urge Michinaga into not leaving it all to Ace in taking care of Jamatos, unknown what'd be she pulling here, as she's the one who sponsors the Jamatos, but still urging him to apparently destroy them, other than revealing her wish to stay until getting ideal misery. Likewise, Kekera here also approaches Keiwa regarding his own wish, with Keiwa actually getting mad at his schemes. I'm worried that the next episode will have his actions validated that Keiwa got stronger by having Sara put in danger, getting his final form, and perhaps Keiwa thanking Kekera at the end or something (including if he ends up killing him, like Daiji to Kagerou in Revice). Kekera praising Keiwa for not leaving people be to Jamatos, being completely unaware that Neon's also doing the same. Wonder if these treacherous supporters would just perish due to seeing what they want.

After its impressive debut, it happens here that... a final form is used against mere mooks, Geats IX struggling against a mere Pawn Jamato, albeit at least he didn't put much effort in handling it like staying still. He also talks about Jamatos being evolved again, which turns out that Daichi followed his words of becoming Jamato when needed, and uses his intellect to become next gardener after Archimedel, aiming for Parasite Game. By this are single Pawn Jamatos now legitimately is hard to take on for any normal humans, like Ace bailing out Neon for this, though here she displays some skill to tackle it before getting overpowered. Keiwa too getting grounded albeit he gets more extended scenes fighting it. No thoughts yet from Keiwa or Neon about the civilians who actually got turned into Jamatos, or for now perhaps they'd think it's just a Jamato mimicking a dead people as in ep. 19, instead of actual civilians being infected. Wonder if there'd be a clash between them and Michinaga who likely can be ok with murdering civilians who get infected to take out the threat.

Also, considering that it is customary for the DGP to leave the unfinished Jamatos in an era where there are no riders or the opportunity for civilians to come to life at the end of the show, I think no one doubts that this reality show is evil.

Onjuuken Suzune!

I think peace and happiness are slightly different. You could say Neon was peaceful when she lost her Kirakira and started obeying Irumi, but she wasn't happy, as she later told Kyuun to let her remember everything if it happened again. Like, what does peace mean for someone like Beroba, who can only be happy if others are suffering? Peace opposes sadism, yet sadism is necessary for happiness, as part of human nature. Ace is simply trying to keep the world safe from Jyamatos so people can find their own happiness and he's only using his own Kirakira for power. This would satisfy Michinaga, but it's probably not enough for Keiwa, who demands justice for the dead, something that would require a lot more Kirakira.

The DX Monster Raise Buckle was paired with Punkjack's Core ID. If you think screen time means anything, then remember that a Tertiary Rider like Espada was absent for over 20 episodes.

There's a rumor that Neon is going to get a new Core ID, which makes me wonder if Na-Go's Core ID is permadead, like the Holy Wing Vistamp. I guess Hakubi won't be coming back anytime soon, but good to see that Sara is continuing to give support for Neon's happiness, now that disappearing is no longer an option. She still has an important role as the heart and being a Rider or not doesn't change that.

If anything happens to Sara, I definitely won't forgive Kekera.

I didn't even recognize Daichi at first without his glasses. Based on the weird veins across his face, looks like he might be going through Jyamafication, so maybe that comes with improved vision. Or he switched to contacts.

Daichi really reminds me of Kabuto from Naruto series :D

In the original, he wrote: 平和な世界 Heiwana Sekai. "Heiwana" in addition to peaceful can also mean calm, harmonious, ideal and, in fact, happy. Keiwa, of course, is an idealist, but he seemed to be volunteering in a kindergarten, not anti-war demonstrations, so I doubt his pacifism and the correctness of the chosen translation. Rather, the difference is that Keiwa's desire is for a happy society, while Ace's desire is for everyone's individual happiness.
Also, didn't Ace declare happiness for everyone even before Jamato came along? Yes, and somehow this is a very pretentious characteristic for getting rid of forgotten monsters (he does not yet know about managers hunting for Tsumuri and Jamato-Daichi).

And Tycoon ID-Core was a Christmas present. It's just that Monster Buckle and Punkjack debuted at the same period of time.

TBH, I think Keiwa might be a jymato. I don't think he realizes it, but the fact he was able to strike buffa, and just the weirdness after his revival has made me formulate the theory.

(also yeah Nudge is defo the fifth, but Win has won my heart, so he's got that going for him)

I honestly don't think screen time/significance matters at all in terms of determining what type of Rider a character is. Remember this is the same franchise where people try to argue that Chalice is the secondary of Blade due to his importance & connection to the main rider when lmao no it's Garren, like confirmed officially 100% it's Garren.

Reality is that a Riders role is whatever Toei/Bandai decides it to be and most likely in any future promo, or special, etc. it'll be PunkJack that'll be shown alongside the main 4. I can almost 110% guarantee Nudge Sparrow will never be acknowledged by Toei/Bandai in any meaningful way after Geats is over.

I personally think that numbered distinctions after Tertiary are mostly irrelevant and not even a confirmed thing by Toei. Even then I?m still somewhat shakey on the third rider destinction even though there is stuff that validates it. On a quick side note, I think that if you view the Secondary Rider destinction as which rider most fits the role of primary sidekick it all adds up.

My main problem with the tertiary destinction it’s only really clear during two stretches Agito-Hibiki, Gaim-Present. Kabuto is a mess in that regard. Den-O, W, and Fourze depend on whether or not you include movie riders. OOO depends on how you view the status of Proto-Birth. The only one’s during that stretch that I feel are really clear cut are Kiva with Saga and Wizard with Mayu’s Mage. This again goes down to marketing. Tertiary riders didn’t becoming a regulary marketed destinction until relatively recently. Secondaries are much more clear cut due to every series since Kuuga having at least two prominent riders in show.

And here, by the way, I agree with Toei. Yes, Chalice is more important for the main plot, but Garren had a bunch of his own mini-subplots and, if desired, you can mount a separate show about him. His panic, "betrayal, relationship with a girlfriend, Mitsuki's training, a rejected rider turned vigilante. In this regard, Garren is a much more unequivocal secondary than any candidate since Zero-One.


But on the contrary, it seems to me that Nadge is still in the post-content will light up. Or maybe even in the anniversary project. For a very long time, the show does not want to part with him. Although maybe, due to the lack of charismatic villains, they need at least an annoying one.

Personally, I judge a tertiary rider compared to Gills. That is, the tertiary is the one who suffers the most for the entire show. In this regard, in the Geats, it is without a doubt Na-Go, who, in my opinion, cries most then all female riders before her.

I just wish Gills was more relevant to Agito as a whole. The guy goes through massive swaths of episodes without even interacting with the other main cast members.

Anyway, whoever is tertiary doesn't really matter. It's not like Toei is chomping at the bit to do a "Tertiary Rider Ultimate Team Up!" special. Outsiders is bringing back villain/antagonistic riders. Girls Remix brought back a swath of female riders.
The classification of tertiary doesn't really hold much ground beyond trying to decide which character has marginally more importance to the plot. Often times, such as this case, it's difficult to say. Na-Go may suffer more, but Michinaga's actions tend to directly alter the plot's trajectory.

That's true, peace is such an abstract concept, like a common good, compared to individual happiness determined by people's desires. Kanato's desire for human extinction can also be called world peace, in a twisted way. It depends whether a person seeks peace by any means necessary, or only as a means to obtaining happiness. I think that's why Keiwa decided to change his desire, as world peace isn't something you wish for, but something each person can contribute to through acts of kindness. But only DGP can bring back dead.

I mean, I can't fault Ace for not knowing about management hanging around in his world. Ziin usually tips him off about such information, but he was forced to leave during the Grand End.

Yeah, weird how they did Tycoon's ID Core. The DX Feverslot Raise Buckle packaging has Geats, Tycoon, Na-Go, Buffa and Punkjack pictured together though, which seems pretty conclusive for who are considered the main 5. Nadge-Sparrow only appears on Premium Bandai ID Core Sets.

I think the most reliable sign of a Tertiary is who appears in the traditional Oronamin C commercials, but those appearances only go back to like, Ghost. Tertiary is a term often used by Rider twitters, like referring to Jeanne as Tertiary instead of Demons, or how Takebe only refers to Na-Go as "heroine" and Buffa as "rival", instead of Tertiary. Secondary Riders can also be rivals, or even enemies, so these terms seem to be whatever the marketing arbitrarily decides.

For me, the ambiguous cases are:

Ryuki, since Zolda came before Ouja but Ouja has more Monsters and recently the third Survive Card.

Hibiki, since Zanki didn't show up in the movie but Todoroki was still called "Todoyama" at the time of his debut.

Kabuto, it's a mess, like you said. Personally, I give it to Sasword.

Decade, whether you believe Yuusuke qualifies.

Gaim, since Zangetsu was playable in Battride War Sousei instead of Ryugen and the war in Episode 1 was between Orange, Banana and Melon.

If only Shirakura gave fans the Next Time Woz they were asking for, then maybe we could've settled this Tertiary debate once and for all with a gaudy as hell Extra Final Form!

But yeah, like, Sixth Rangers aren't always sixth, but they're still "Sixth", so it seems weird to hold Rider to a higher standard of logic.

In this case, everything is clear enough for me. During the show itself, Zolda was considered tertiary, but after, due to the charisma of the character and the willingness of the actor to return, Ouja took his place. By the way, the same thing happens with Genm, only much faster and more brazenly. As for the Asakura monster trio, given that even Ryuki and Knight didn't get any extra pets, it's not a coolness of the character, but an attempt to make him an even more dangerous and terrifying villain.

It just has its own subplot. Personally, I see it as a sign of the importance of the character, because the show's creators got confused and removed something that the series could do without. I mean, Gills could just show up for a fight and then run off-screen.
If we talk about the importance to the main story, then in Geats, the secondary and tertiary riders should be PunkJack and Beroba, because without them, Ace played DGP for another 2000 years, having no idea what happened to his mother.

For Ghost onwards the answer is pretty simple in terms of who are the main trio that Toei advertises as like the Primary, Secondary, Tertiary Trinity.

Just look at the Oronamin C Ads, simple as that.

Only with the participation of Beroba, before her, he was a stupid thug always losing to a cunning fox.

Though in recent episodes, Keiwa does vouch for everyone's happiness to reject any sacrifices revolving how DGP works (which'd mean not viewing good in statistics), and also convincing Neon to stay and make sure that the world can accomodate everyone's happiness including a fake human. Dunno if this'd sound spiteful to you regarding Michinaga talk, or just pointing out about the DGP not being the only problem (though obviously it's a big one), perhaps Michinaga can discover that even by having the Rider powers nonexistent, the humans' desire and free will means that as long as people are free to choose, someone will choose to do evil, and there will always be someone else who still suffer from their freely taken evil actions, likely will cook up another extremist plan to "end conflict".

I'd wanna ask why do you praise Sara's support to Neon here, but consider Keiwa and Neon helping her as merely doing it for personal connection? O̶t̶h̶e̶r̶w̶i̶s̶e̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶N̶e̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶S̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶i̶r̶l̶-̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶R̶i̶n̶t̶a̶r̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶M̶e̶i̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶?̶

Yeah, Kanato's deisre can technically achieve peace, because conflicts'd be always present among any living beings. Which'd be why it's not only the person's intentions that are important, wanting world peace doesn't necessarily make someone good (even though perhaps there'd be those who still praise the extremist ones wanting that compared to the other Riders' desire they all condemn because it's for personal gain), but Keiwa's a good person (doesn't mean he's inculpable though, as like his self-righteous move in ep. 8) because he actively puts into practice of helping others including rival Riders and avoiding doing bad things to them, at least directly.

Y̶e̶a̶h̶ ̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶"̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶n̶a̶b̶e̶"̶.̶ ̶G̶u̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶n̶i̶p̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶l̶l̶e̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶e̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶A̶c̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶K̶a̶m̶e̶n̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶,̶ ̶D̶a̶i̶c̶h̶i̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶N̶a̶r̶u̶t̶o̶'̶s̶ ̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶.̶

There'd be difference between actually affecting or harming someone with the strikes vs just pushing something with your force - the latter can be done against even something unbreakable depending on how much it weighs.

We have to not depend on personal feelings to decide characters' role. It's something completely subjective and varied regarding which characters feel more standout, impactful, important, fun, etc. (screentime can be used for these stuff too, though not only it) which is what some people often use to measure main characters or more important ones (which seems to be just asserting personal favorites). And because protagonists are often not people's favorite, it can happen for outright primary Riders too, like for example, claiming Fuwa's the main Rider instead of Aruto - seems obvious that this is just imposing their favorites they're the most invested with as the main only because you don't care about actual one, those shouldn't be validated.

Thought Kitaoka (with Goro too) seems to be the only other universally well-received character other than Asakura in that show. And plot reason seems to be the explanation to not have him return (while the actor has other explanation iirc, but even then the actors of main Riders Shotaro and Philip are difficult to return), succumbing to his cancer. Ouja's personal Rider stuff is spare Contract Cards (like Ryuki and Knight having Survive, Gai having Confine, Raia having Copy, etc.), but it's necessary because both Ryuki and Knight schools Ouja easily as Survive, he gotta keep up with at least making his monster on par with Survive ones (in the Attack Power of Genocider to Dragranzer & Darkraider).

And characterization has no relation to their story role, even though it's true Na-Go is the tertiary. The franchise's formula may have certain characters often occupy that role, but they (or anyone else) can perform different things for that character role too if they want. Michinaga has a characterization similar to many previous secondaries of being brutish thug , same logic applies to Neon here for "suffers the most" (guess for OOO, the primary seems clearly the one suffering the most, and even then, perhaps there are lots of other tertiary that doesn't suffer the most, at least in comparison to main characters like Mihara, Taiga, Woz, Yua, Sakura).

Otherwise, seems that from how you're talking about the "cries" here, you're an actual example of those thinking that, versatility aside, characters are only okay to display a breakdown, vulnerability, etc. if they have "proven" themselves to be a "bonafide badass" (read: those being grumpy, antisocial, aggressive, and other cold or outright toxic masculine traits depicted as tough) of which it'd be praised as humanizing instead for them. Gotta stop encouraging emotional suppression/avoidance of vulnerability and telling people not to cry, be vulnerable (except for those normally acting like stereotypical men, and those characters I refer are often given occassional vulnerable moments, just the double standard of only those being able to without being shamed), and project a rather inauthentic image, lest those get harassed and shamed. It's not what being emotionally healthy actually is and it can't be suppressed forever, also strong doesn't only come in one mold, there's no one way to be strong.

It's also a common view that villains tend to directly alter the plot's trajectory more, in fact it can be seen as inherent (actually not always) that they're the ones who make the plot while the heroes only react. By this there can be people having takes such as "Joker is the real protagonist (or even 'the hero') of The Dark Knight" but doesn't mean they're stating the truth/fact - it's just one of those biased interpretations revolving around their favorite characters only.

Cicero said, "Exceptions prove the rules." Ace would love it. Over the 50 years of the franchise, riders atypical for their roles will certainly appear in it. This applies to both primary and secondary, and tertiary too. Plus, in Revice, I consider Demons tertiary, just not agreeing with Toei. Let this be a personal headcanon. As for Michinaga, your statement is very debatable, because he is quite similar to Snipe. And Beroba doesn't call him Micchy for nothing. Plus, in the movie, he fought Vice, emphasizing his position as more important than secondary.

So, I'm sure that we already had this conversation, but still you are fighting in the wrong direction again. When I write that someone cries a lot, I am not judging or belittling, but simply stating a fact. If I want to give this a condemning color, I use a colorful epithet to emphasize it.
And even more so, I'm not a fan of cool characters. In my rider rankings, Takeru is higher than Tendo. And the same Gills I like not because he is cool and brutal, but because I feel sorry for the boy who receives a triple share of misfortunes in the show.

Therefore, it seems to me that we need to stop being offended by the statement of fact. A person who fights a lot is a fighter; a person who screams a lot is a screamer; a person who cries a lot is a crybaby. And "crybaby" is not an insult. A pitiful crybaby is an insult. I hope I made my position clear.
Plus, everything you wrote about mental health doesn't apply to Neon? She created a bright positive image on the Internet, hiding her tears behind a smile. And I do not blame her for crying (I just state that she cries a lot), but in her case, tears do not help. Otherwise, she would have already come close to solving her problems, but this is not the case. Neon is still unhappy.


The Joker and after the "Batman" of the 89th was a favorite character for many, but then it never occurred to anyone to say such a thing. In the cases of The Dark Knight, Christian Bale's character does not corny develop either like Batman or like Bruce Wayne, but simply reacts to external stimuli. Therefore, for the audience (and due to the popularity of the film, many watched it before "Batman Begins"), he is boring and they were drawn to a more interesting character. Returning to Geats, as I already wrote, judging by the importance for the plot, then PunkJack is one of the main characters, because without him, Ace would never have known about the connection between his mother and the DGP, and would have played with Jamato for another 2000 years.

I'd rather Michinaga doesn't go full genocidal villain like Kaito, as that would pretty much ruin the character for me. Michinaga already shows awareness of the fact that evil is inherent in human nature, which is a trait he acknowledges in himself as well. But his interaction with Tycoon in Episode 37 suggests that his philosophy is about protecting people's happiness from those who would deny them that, so destroying free will and denying everybody would be a contradiction. At this point in the show, I want to see Michinaga develop constructively, not get worse.

Doing good for personal connection is still worthy of praise in its own right. It's good for friends and siblings to help each other out, especially when they're at their lowest. Also consider that Sara supporting Neon is beneficial for all of Neon's fans who want her to be happy, in reciprocation for the happiness she gave them.

:thumb:

So you forgave him the civilians who disappeared during "Heaven or Hell"? Or put the responsibility for them on Beroba?

Michinaga and Beroba created that scheme together, so they share the blame. While it's true that Michinaga is bad enough that he deems some people expendable to prove a point, he's not so terrible that he would commit genocide.

Genocide is for when a specific group of people are being targeted to kill, and Michinaga certainly didn't do that. But the guy committed mass homicide, and that's still really bad. Like even taking into account that some civilians get brought back to life after the final round, it's been pointed out there are STILL people who don't get brought back in order to be used as fuel for the wishes, like Keiwa's parents.

Like deeming anyone expendable for any reason is bad, no matter what the scale. The DGP is wrong for what they've done, but Michinaga really wasn't much better.

There are other ways to enjoy characters and express it than just stating misinformations though, can be done without asserting that personal favorites are more important than others (also extends to those deeming Demons more than tertiary - as MC instead). Obviously I know viewers would be often more focused on their favorite characters, but of course that's something really subjective in general, even if there's general consensus. While viewers may be focused on seeing how the favorite character performs, it won't change who's the actual protagonist, which is something objective. And I don't meant that Snipe doesn't have suffering, but I personally don't think that his is higher than other characters such as Ex-Aid, just on par.

Guess I misjudged you here, though to explain, it came from how from my experience, yeah crying do get used often as an insult and hate for characters, there'd be quite a big number about patronizing complaints and rants in regards to crying characters, though dunno if it's just them being loud (though the insulting part still remains). Also just to say, yeah regarding the cool characters, Tendou does have vulnerable moments, like if he interacts with Hiyori, just saying that those I refer aren't devoid of it.

It depends, there can be those who take some characters and narrowly define them based on one action or event, to the exclusion of other, often more important, actions of that character, of which being a screamer (in a cringe way), and crybaby, or other stuff seen as major embarassing moments, such as characters losing a fight thus "weak", can be some examples, of which some people can endlessly bring up that, and only that, to make fun and degrade them, passing those off as fact but not actually, more like it seems as if some people just haven't been paying attention.

Yeah, there can be some possibilities ahead, perhaps that the current DGP being made devoid of rewards can make him open his eyes, though it's not the first time the series has established genuineness, like how the JGP before also had the "antagonistic" Riders genuinely protect people because they want, as 'questioned' by Chirami (but he accuses them as half-heartedly fighting without rewards). I don't specifically refer to him being genocidal for the extremist plan, it can be something like making them live in dystopian world (likely contrasts to Ace's utopia) or assimilating them.

Though regarding said interaction, maybe it depends on translation subs, but from what I catch I do think that the ep. 37 one have his argument being about just living and not being at stakes - which is similar to what you said about how Neon was peaceful when she started obeying Irumi, but she wasn't happy. But I thought he hates happiness in their interaction for ep. 31, blaming it as the root of all evil - and he has no problem bringing misery via the JGP, as long as it opposes the DGP, and we know that merely living doesn't mean fulfilling, but I know some people (those like him or some real life audience who makes defenses for those "not killing") do equate living or surviving as "not being miserable" (which I thought was what he said there).

Not Sh Ranger, but yeah ironically despite the point of the reset for some civilians, it's a common defense some people use for him to paint him as blameless that the civilians will get reset thus he didn't kill anyone (and somehow they can forget he murdered the Riders here to claim he never killed Riders or anyone). This also ignores how not all Rider fightings are DGP (this is the JGP, the ones who get reset after this are Jamatos, and Beroba explicitly stated that they will be used as sacrifices to fuel the wish for the JGP’s winner). And their targets being deserving one (including society or entire world) do often can make people forget their atrocities, thinking that they're small prices for the better outcome - the thing is I don't know why some people think these guys' plans will always work out perfectly if let be, and their plans are seen as the only one that can work for betterment, thus those opposing them (not strictly about Geats but various other media) are considred not getting the big picture to hinder that.

Geats Boost MK. XI is a phenomenal suit with a grand debut and a fantastic episode.

Now we move to the present (since I caught up), and now we got fleas- I mean, Jamato in fun-size. I've also noticed in the Opening, the writing on the Desire Grand Prix cards are different, now reading "who gets a happy end?" "who doesn't get a happy end?" (I probably wrote them wrong, but that was the gist)

Kekera and Beroba are here looking for some fun, while the Game Producers are now out to snag their Navigator back. Also, shout out to Niram for standing up to Suell.

Next Episode: "My sister is dead. Now check out my new form." "Hiro Kagami?"

Niram is very funny and ridiculous in his hypocrisy. He was not at all embarrassed to deceive the riders, as if they were fighting to save the world, but as soon as he found out that he, too, had not been told the whole truth, he became indignant and offended.

I think that even Michinaga fans hardly consider him flawless. Rather, they just like him more than the rest of the riders in the show. Personally, I can't help but be touched by the fact that two riders had to be added to the plot, whose main task for most of their episodes was to think instead of Buffa.
And I also want to mention the numerous betrayals from Michinaga. He betrayed Merry, he betrayed Beroba, he betrayed his Jamato friend and, in a way, he betrayed Nadge. Of course, one can argue that all these characters are villains, but personally they did nothing wrong to him. However, the show didn't give him the opportunity to betray the Geats during their collaboration, which means Michinaga is likely to get away with it.

This is a very example of bad guys being at conflict due to differing views on "how to run the world". It'd be one way of how bad guys can get into an infighting. It should still not be overlooked (depending on the reason you appreciate him here) despite Niramu being victimized and thus evoking sympathy. It's still not about him having moral limits or on the path of redemption, just not Suel's equal, of which if he is the outcome can be different but still a bad guy infighting either way.

You can like villains or terrible people while acknowledging their crimes. So yeah, These kind of things shouldn't be explained as due to liking him (or other similar kind of characters).

As said above, these moments would be celebrated due to him taking out evildoers, which would benefit others, like beating up Chirami one, and beating up bad guys would be what people see as "heroic" (including the view that bad guys are bad because the heroes beat them up). Albeit, it should not matter if they personally did nothing wrong to him, taking action against injustice others suffered from, and I'd still consider these acts as him displaying standards, but still low ones and I wouldn't elevate him like these viewers do.