Kamen Rider Gotchard Episode 2: "Pursuit, Alchemy, Skebows!" Discussion
 

Houtaro must take an entrance exam for the secret Alchemist Academy.

This episode elaborates the internal logic typical in stories about alchemy, yet it's kinda messy. In one scene it's shown that the RCC's have actual relative masses, yet in other scenes they're just ordinary cards.

Rinne mentioned the definition of alchemy as creating something from nothing and or creating life from death/the non-living. I guess the elixir hypothesis I made last week is plausible after all. Looks like one of the villains is aiming to create an articial life.

There have also been several mentions of natural order. How big exactly is the scope of the power of alchemy? Can it defy the laws of physics? Can it manipulate reality? Can it turn someone into a God?

Minato is very likely a double agent, like Tachibana/Emoto/Virgo Zodiarts from Fourze. He's at least at the same rank as the Sisters, or probably even higher than theirs. So far, I haven't seen manipulative tendencies from the Sisters, so I guess they're just mid-level generals. There's still a higher entity commanding them (and Minato) behind the scene.

Minato also gave Houtarou several RCC's in this episode. So I guess he's also catching Chemies behind the scene.

Spanner/Valvarad's attitude of equating Chemies to tools reminds me of Yua Yaiba's. Also, who does he work for? Another alchemist organization? The villain?

I've got several new hypotheses:
- I think The Sisters are similar to the Megiddos. They're probably humans or former humans that abused the power of alchemy and were consumed by it. They still have a little bit of human side, thus allowing them to fuse with the Chemies like other normal humans.
- The isekai (Ouroboros world) is probably the source of the power of alchemy and is also the homeworld of the Chemies, similar to the Wonder World.
- Hopper 1 is the mascot character of this show, so I guess he will grow up and become stronger as the bond between him and Houtarou become stronger as well. I hope he will become some kind of pet/partner character like Battle Hopper. Several Chemies can probably evolve into stronger forms, like Pokemons or Digimons or PreCure mascots. After all, the OP is called Chemy?Story, aka the chemistry or bond between Houtarou and Hopper 1.
- Kajiki is likely going to be a recurring comic character who also has another role as an independent truth seeker, similar to ORE Journal from Ryuki. He'll get very close to the truth, fail, get Neuralyzed several times, and will probably manage to find out about the truth near the end of the story.

Okay, I was vibing with episode 2 much better than the premiere.

I didn't expect the protagonist to roll into alchemy school but that prospect is kind of neat.

Also - I was enjoying Geats so much, I didn't even realize that I was lowkey missing the weekly villain monster plots. Now this one wasn't much to write home about, but still kinda fun.

Now I actually do want to see more of this show, nice.

So far... I got Hibiki vibes from this series (other than Blade for MOTW stuff)

Between the leads, there's a contrast for their father, where both Hotaro and Rinne's father leave them, but both reacted to it in opposite ways. Hotaro is more open-minded about why his father can leave it, particularly due to Tamami insisting that it's ok for her husband to go chase after personal dreams. While Rinne has daddy issues to resent him, regardless of reasons.

Despite not being said in the preview, yeah this episode emphasizes Hotaro's kindness more, faster than Ikki's. He strives to befriend Chemies in contrast to the academy using them as a means for the end, or the bank robber using them as weapons, and now he seemingly finds his calling for life now? Quicker than I expect to become alchemist and befriend Chemies. This part highlights Hotaro's empathy being a valuable asset in him getting the Chemies to do him a favor, and pass the test. Though it's never seen how the Chemies as a card would eat. He also begs for the robber to stop beating up the cops and saves Rinne again despite being in more vulnerable position (unmorphed).

Though certainly a more serious than Hotaro, the haughty part of Rinne in ep. 1 seems to be abandoned entirely, with her just explaining things to Hotaro, all facts without feelings (positive or negative). Continuing from the serious (and professional) part, she'd be the rigid type of following written rules and duties, to remind Hotaro about his tactics being forbidden. I guess like Akira Amami then... the hostility was a one-off but introductory part (with Akira getting reprimanded for it and apologizing), though she does refer to Hotaro as poem-lover again here, but wonder if her school side would be touched upon, with her seemingly more cheerful as a child.

This episode has more goofiness than before though, like the Skebie scene (the camera angles), and how the bank robber backstabbed his partner. So far it seems like as usual, only Riders can solve problems and thus Rinne is used to job to the MOTW and showcase their abilities, with Hotaro saving her and intervening as Rider.... giving Kiva's Fangire Hunters vibe. Now the varied power of alchemy is incorporated in the Rider fights too in Gotchard turning one of the tyres thrown by Skebows to an elastic slingshot.

Spana is starting to feel a lot like Nago-san already minus the button obsession.

So I'm guessing a lot of scenes in the OP are just placeholders as they introduce more forms.

This was fun. There was definitely a lot of exposition, but on the whole I think it was just a lot of good, lighthearted fun. I'm getting kind of early Den-O or OOO vibes from the show and I'm really enjoying it.

Same, it's got very early 2010's Rider feel in a way that's really refreshing

I think the Chemies can control their weight, which is how they helped Houtaro in the end

According to the wiki, he's a graduate of the alchemy school sent by the higher ups to cathh Chemies

No, that's not what I meant.

Even before Odorippa got on a diet and Kamantis ate more food, there have already been several inconsistencies. One can make a conjecture that anyone who wears the Alchemist Ring can alter or at least influence the weight of all RCC's, thus making them look like ordinary cards. But, even before Houtarou got his Alchemist Ring @ 21:20, the way he's handled the cards are wildly inconsistent. In episode 1 he handled them like ordinary cards. But why did the cards suddenly gain real weight only during the scene @ 05:57-06:43? You can see that even in that scene @ 06:00 the card on Houtarou's right hand (very likely Kamantis) is just an ordinary card, yet when he received Odorippa from Minato on his left hand, suddenly only Odorippa that acts like it has real weight. Why doesn't the other cards behave the same, not only in that particular scene, but in all scenes since episode 1?

I know that the writers intended to elaborate on the common alchemy-esque internal logic, but at least do it consistently and carefully. They could make a special tool that weighs the cards, like the scale in that scene, and the cards only have real weight when put on that scale, and outside of that scale the cards mysteriously weigh like any ordinary cards. That way, the writers can show that the RCC's do have mysterious, unexplainable, miraculous properties, while also maintaining logical consistencies. Two birds stoned at once.

I've read his bio. Are the top brasses who sent him from the same organization that manages his alma mater? Or are they from a different organization, or probably a different alchemy academy? Kinda like in Harry Potter where there are several school of magic around the world, and there is a unified governing body (Ministry of Magic). Could there be a a unified governing body (Ministry of Alchemy) in Gotchard world that keep the existence of alchemy secret from the laypeople? It'd be much more interesting if a governing body and other alchemy academies do exist.

Because all the cards he touched so far were light, only Odorippa was stupid heavy is what I'm thinking. If we were in Episode 27 or something and he handled dozens of cards this would be weird, but Odorippa is the - fourth one he ever held? Not unthinkable that Hopper1, SteamLiner and Kamantis are simply lighter.

You will undoubtedly be proven right in the near future though, because this whole "Cards have individual weights"-thing will fly out the window, be forgotten within the first 10 episodes and never mentioned again. Heck, we're lucky if they remember it after this one.

You don't need to wait until episode 3, because they don't even remember it in this very same episode. In other scenes but the first scale scene, the cards behave identically like any ordinary cards. Did the writers properly storyboard-proof their scripts? I don't think so.

That probably is what's going on, they just didn't feel the need to explain it since you can just see it happening.

"The skateboard inside you just wants to have fun!" :lol

I was excited to hear the new insert song by Beverly, since Be The One is my favorite OP. Gotchard's got a great soundtrack so far!

The action continues to be impressive, with how SteamHopper launched Golddash in the air and then jumped to land on it. Houtarou may be dense in academics, but to compensate for that, he is a quick and imaginative thinker to come up with these cool moves, as well as his unconventional solution to the alchemy test.

Alchemy seems to contradict itself. Minato talks about conservation of mass, while Rinne talks about creating something from nothing. But I guess that's intentional to depict alchemy as something difficult to understand, since Houtarou points out that the result is basically magic.

Yep, that's what I think as well. Atropos is Storious, Clotho is Zooous and Lachesis is Legeiel.

Rinne reminds me of Hirose, who also had issues about her father releasing a bunch of monsters from cards. Maybe this is why Rinne feels responsible as an alchemist, she wants to atone for her father's actions. However, Fuga honestly seemed like a pretty good guy, both in Houtarou's interaction and Rinne's flasback. Even though he "betrayed" the Alchemy Academy, I think he probably had a good reason.

Well, if the Ride Chemy Cards are merely containers to compress and convert Chemies in to a usable form, then it makes sense that you could probably put food inside them as well.

Makes me wonder about the biological needs of Chemies, as artificial lifeforms. While they can live for 120 years without visible aging, they still have a basic metabolism that affects their weight depending on their diet, which means poor physical health might kill them. Intriguing.

Yeah, this episode was a much better impression of Rinne. She even smiles at Houtarou's dream to befriend all the Chemies, so looks like she shares some of his idealism and that her coldness from before was a defensive behavior that she drops now that she's had time to know Houtarou a little better. Kind of like an anti-Keiwa. Instead, the real mean archetype seems to be Spanner, who dismisses Houtarou's dream as an "unfunny joke", which I guess makes him an anti-Isamu.

You compare Rinne to the Fangire Hunters, but her use of manholes is like Kitajima Yuko. :lol

I don't think that's what's going on. I've elaborated it on post #10.

I completely agree with the "show, don't tell" approach. The problem is, what they've shown is inconsistent.

Also, there are several unanswered questions:
- If Minato said that what Houtarou did was an incorrect method, then what's the correct method? Rinne said @ 10:27 that alchemists wearing the Ring can change the weight of the cards. But Houtarou didn't have the Ring until @ 21:20. So how was he supposed to change the weight of the cards without a Ring?
- What's the point of changing the weight of the cards in the first place? Does it make them stronger or gain new powers/skills? Does it make them able to evolve? Does it make them able to fuse better with their best match card?

I think perhaps alchemy is a force that causes the universe to collapse on itself or self-destruct, symbolized by the Ouroboros as a snake that eats its own tail. Perhaps the Ouroboros world is a parallel world that is another side of the Earth Prime that can destroy the Earth Prime if they overlap too much. Kinda like a sinister version of Wonder World. That's why the alchemists are tasked with maintaining balance and natural order between the two worlds.

There's an important point I forgot to mention in episode 1's thread. If Fuga and Houtarou were already at Ouroboros @ 12:05, then where did The Sisters come from? Did they come from another another world, or did they simply open a portal from a different place in Ouroboros?

Can't lie, I like Kudoh a little bit more now.

Is it just me or does the academy feel like the HQ of Ryukendo? Maybe it's the lighting.

I agree, it can just seem that Fuga was a good guy, and that it can be a rather irrational hatred to him only because he's not fully lawful (lawful ≠ good). Then again, Saber also happened with how Daichi was like. Kamijo, btw. And... oh, viewing oneself as an extension of their family, feeling burdened by it, and getting the motivation to atone for family's misdeeds beyond their control, a recurring in "battle royale" series before (other than Blade, also Yui regarding Shiro and Neon regarding to Kurama zaibatsu), something that can be seen as unreal and alien. Maybe Rinne's take is a negative one (ironic, writing this after you said "anti-Keiwa"...) to be so obsessed to it to dismiss anything unrelated to it like making friends with others before... despite that it's also important to extend other goodness.

I wonder why you'd not think of Spanner's behavior as just being honest and blunt here, because it can just get interpreted as him being a "tsundere" who wants to give a reality check to Hotaro with a standoffish front or such - as in the world is a cruel and horrible place always, no buts, thus they have to follow suit by having cold-detached traits ("becoming practical and realistic), which often get agreed upon by fandom too (like you on Michinaga but extend that as general consensus). Though lighthearted shows will have anyone on the good side being seen as always pure white, to the antagonist's pure black.... should only giving praises and no criticisms, rejecting ideas/possibility of them being in the wrong.

Given the equipment and materials in the lab, it's likely there are other methods of performing alchemy. Houtarou just didn't think to look around because he's more focused on the Chemies as sentient creatures rather than experiments.

Changing the weight is likely about learning the basics of alchemy. Like how in math you do a bunch of equations and problems that seem pointless by themselves but help you learn the basics that you apply to real world problems

Manhole Alchemist FTW!

Well, Houtarou brings up a good point about whether the Chemies should be kept sealed. If human malice causes them to become Malgams, then that sounds like a human problem, not a Chemy problem. Reminds me of how the HumaGears were treated, which might make Spanner and Isamu similar in their discrimination, albeit with opposite sense of humor. However, Spanner's case makes less sense to me, as Chemies are already recognized as lifeforms, so I'm not sure how he can logically justify believing they're only tools. I think there's a difference between being "practical and realistic" like Michinaga (usually anyway) and just being cynical. Like, we know that Gotchard's power increases with the magic of friendship, so even if Valvarad is a strong brilliant invention of alchemy now, the lack of synchronization with Chemies will likely become a problem in the long term.

I get that the writers intended to show and elaborate on the basic internal logic of alchemy. I've stated it multiple times. My question is: Why did the story need Houtarou to change the weight of the RCC's? Why didn't Minato just tell him to manipulate ordinary things, not the RCC's? Did the writers do it to show that Houtarou is an imaginative thinker? Or did the writers do it just to make a cheap visual gag @ 05:57-06:43? And, like I stated in my previous post: How was he supposed to do alchemical techniques without a Ring? Many things in this episode make no sense at all. It feels unnecessary. It feels shoehorned. It feels contrived.

I don't think changing or tampering the RCC's is pointless. The cards are the source of Gotchard's power. Those things aren't supposed to be tampered with ordinary method (like Houtarou did in this episode), let alone with alchemical techniques. What if Houtarou did find an alchemical technique to tamper with the cards (like Rinne casually did @ 10:32)? That gotta affect the cards in some way. I can't tamper with those things in this episode and in the next episodes I simply call that tampering pointless. I can't just casually sweep it under the rug.

You also mentioned solving real-world problems. Then, what was the problem with Odorippa and Kamantis that they needed to be tampered with in the first place? Why were Odorippa being overweight and Kamantis being underweight considered problems? Again, it makes no sense. The story could've simultaneously maintained internal logic consistency and elaborated on the alchemical law of conservation of mass through other ways, one of which was the one I proposed.

I really hope this is the first and the last time Gotchard's writers use plot/internal logic contrivance. What happened if the writers of a story deliberately made the internal logic contrived? Revice happened. Or, God forbid, Geats happened. Contrivance always results in nonsensical, messy, and inconsistent internal logic. Consider my criticism in this episode a warning to the writers.