Kamen Rider Zeztz Case #14- "Thunder"- Discussion
 

Baku has a new mission: Eliminate Nox.

So what happened to Baku after he got sucked into the black hole? Retreating deep into his own consciousness, that's what! Complete with all the Capsem elements! And even Nem in her red dress!

"Eliminate the Enemy" - So Zero is just straight up telling him to assassinate NOX. Baku kind of rolls with it since it's stuff Bond would probably be ordered to do...but deep into his mind there seems to be some kind of resistance. At least he gets cell reception in his mind!

What is Baku's core nightmare? Walking home during a lightning strike? But what's this really suspicious cram school where he and a bunch of other kids wore headphones, closed their eyes, and saw really weird visuals on a screen!? In a class taught by Odaka/NOX!?

What does NOX fear? Some kind of shadowy Nightmare that's been dogging him and he can't escape no matter what he does.

So I see Zero's just straight up leaving the entryway open now. Imagine if Fujimi and Nasuka actually came back.

It was nice of Nem to try to comfort child Baku...less nice of Baku to just kind of toss her aside.

Well, if the Capsem's are weaponized Nightmares, then obviously Baku can just weaponize his own to create his first upgrade form. Bro even said "Arize."

It makes sense that Nem's outfit in NOX's dream would be the outfit he has her currently wearing in his NOX lair (I assume). Points for the miniskirt!

NOX thought he was done with one Nightmare but he wasn't prepared for Zeztz. Enter INAZUMA PLASMA! A form with a shocking entrance, superspeed that rivals the Flash, and a Plasma Bow that can do a lot of damage! Finally Zeztz catches up to Nox Knight!

Dang, their fight was showing in the real world!?

Well, he beat NOX but he's clearly not physically used to the form so he de-transforms too. Does that count as a tie?

Honestly Zero holding Baku's ability to wake up on the premise of him killing another person is...pretty dark, even if it's very legitimate spy-level.

What did they erase from Baku's memory? Whatever CODE did to him? Is this why he's an Agent? WHAT DID CODE DO!?

Oh, so they do the pre and post-show teasers now!

I'd say I'm still struggling to see the larger purpose of anything going on in Zeztz, but then, I found this episode extremely entertaining anyway, and I suppose that's always the largest purpose of them all.

But yeah, even this week, it's still a little hard for me to read into the material much deeper than the broad strokes? The story is a doing a ton of things I love to see, especially in how it gets more introspective with the hero and continues to challenge the preconceived notion of the current main antagonist actually being a villain, but... usually around this point, I'd be able to talk about how a Kamen Rider show is exploring some theme or portraying character growth or anything else like that which really resonates with me on some personal level, and Zeztz and I still aren't quite there yet. Not unlike Baku sorting out his repressed memories this week, it keeps feeling like I can see this sort of fuzzy mirage of *something*, but even as that something becomes more and more clear, it's not exactly in focus.

That's also sort of a paradox in my experience watching Zeztz that keeps making my opinions on it come out so weird, which this episode exemplifies? The direction, thanks to Kamihoriuchi's usual genius, is *insanely* rich throughout. There's so much evocative imagery and all these touches that make all these events I can't yet fully comprehend on a conscious level feel so grand and meaningful in a sort of primal way. Despite that, though, trying to treat the show as a sort of "feel, don't think!" situation leaves me circling right back to how much less I'm feeling than usual? Part of me definitely wants to see that striking image of Baku making the very lightning at the core of all his bad dreams into his own power and immediately grasp it as a powerful statement the show is making about something, but again, "something" ends up feeling like no matter where I look, it's always in the corner of my eye, and never properly in front of me.

I think overall the show is exploring dreams, escapism, and how they intersect with reality.

How dreams are worth protecting but they aren't always what we think they are (in Baku's case at least).

How much one can throw themselves into their dream life at expense to their own personal character.

I guess we just aren't even pretending CODE is ethical anymore, but I do wish NOX would just spit out what is going on already. I can't decide if he just doesn't trust Baku with the information or if he thinks giving him more info will put Baku in danger. NOX doesn't really seem like he has ill intentions though, it looks more like he was trying to undo something CODE had done to a bunch of children in the past, probably related with the national secret that was touched on before. The way the camera lingered on Nem while in NOX's dream was also pretty striking. I wonder if she was dressed as someone important to NOX? Besides that, I felt like Baku took a rather dark turn this week and I'm not sure how intentional it was? Shoving Nem aside in a bid to save "himself" and then going after NOX with a level of aggression that genuinely felt like he planned to kill him if his transformation hadn't given out. Since it looks like Plasma gets ANOTHER new suit next week, maybe he has to properly sort out his feelings before unlocking its true power. Not bad this week honestly, but I'm still kind of annoyed with the meandering path the show took to finally get to the point where it finally starts answering some questions.

I really dug this episode a ton, and it surprisingly managed to hit me on a pretty personal level.

If you don't care to read my personal anecdote, just know that the important part is that this episode really resonated with me in everything it did, and it made me very excited to see where the show's gonna go from here on out.

As for my personal stakes though, I related alot to Baku here. His first, most striking nightmare being that involving him getting struck by lightning is also a big aspect of a reoccurring nightmare I myself have had on and off for years. It's become more sparse over time, but I still do have it occasionally.

And part of the process of me coming to terms with the feelings that bad dream represented was done via me taking inspiration from that dream to make into one of my OCs. In other words, channeling the nightmare into something more positive. And that's exactly what Baku does here. As has been seen with NOX(and apparently, CODE)'s' tendency to "erase" things; If you run from the problem, that typically only holds things off for a little while, if not makes them outright worse.

NOX's' personal fears are what hold him back from being able to return to reality; keeping him in the dramatic irony of the exact thing he accused Baku of. Baku, meanwhile, is facing various truths head on, and chooses to instead try and channel his personal darkness into something better. I think it's rather telling that rather than follow his mission to a T and kill NOX outright, Baku instead disables his target and demands answers out of him. He doesn't want to be in a never ending dream, regardless of how much he embraces the ideal of being a secret agent. He's a dreamer, but he's not delusional.

And I gotta say, big props to whoever handled the directing on this one, as it captured the necessary mood and emotions to carry this sort of story perfectly. I especially loved how the screen filtered between the colors of Zeztz's' various forms as Baku confronts his first nightmare, thus showing that Baku is embracing everything he's experienced up to this point.

Just... man, fantastic episode this week. Easily my favorite so far.

I'm pretty sure it's the same outfit she's wearing with her comatose body.

Well, Zero continues to resemble the show's main villain more and more. He prevents Baku from waking up and gives him another task, this time far less heroic and benevolent than before. Baku immerses himself in a memory, decides he's willing to use nightmares to save people's dreams, and, using his nightmare, gains a lightning-themed power-up. The effects are fantastic, but it's pretty hard to enjoy the fight when NOX is literally trying to wake up. I mean, I'm used to heroes begging for friendship from far more immoral villains, and Baku, ready to kill NOX because he's ordered to, feels really wrong. However, NOX isn't much better. His actions are clearly damaging the real world. Plus, he always presents information with the utmost secrecy and reluctance, but he still wants to be listened to. So, I don't really feel like liking him either.
The idea of ​​preparation agent since childhood has surprised and frightened me . Considering all the conflicting information, I'm now inclined to believe that Odaka, NOX, and Zero are three entities who once shared a single body and are now separated. Or perhaps it's simply a way to further confuse viewers until they find the right actor. We also might have caught a glimpse of child versions of some of the other 5 CODE agents.
I also can't help but note that in this episode, the police and Minami seem incredibly helpless. Fujimi and Nasuki's investigation led nowhere, and Minami is completely incapable of influencing Zero. At least Nem capable of moral support, even if she, too, seems more like a bewildered observer.
Overall, I wonder how this standoff will be resolved, and will Baku fail its mission? Or will NOX pull a trick from "You Only Live Twice"?
P.S. I just thought it would be funny if they added one of the previous CODE agents to Gіrl Remix before she appeared in Zeztz. So, as I understand it, agents don't die, but rather get lost in the dream world, and who knows where they can go from there?

i really enjoyed Gavv but i appreciate the different approach Zeztz is taking. its more restrained and serious (but not super serious). also doesn't feel like its constantly trying to sell me toys.

Technically, even in the Gavv's movie, showed that Zeztz's actions affect the real world in the same way as the Nightmares'. The problem is that:
A) "Invaders of the House of Snacks" only reached us recently.
B) Such early demonstrations of power often don't match up with what's shown in the main show.

- I like that Baku is starting to ask questions of Zero, even if he does ultimately comply with the assassination orders once Zero orders him to just focus on the mission. Between this and the subsequent flashbacks, it seems like the recent revelations are starting to get to Baku, as much as he wants to keep on being the heroic (and obedient) CODE agent.

- Feels weird to see Zero in the bedroom part of Baku's bedroom...

- New theory based on this bizarro cram school is that CODE has been grooming lucid dreamers to be potential future agents; of the sleeper agent variety where they lay dormant until activated.

...I was about to comment on the pun until I remembered this show is Japanese...

Anyway, now I'm wondering if Baku would've even wanted to be a secret agent had it not been for the CODE Cram School. Like, did CODE mold Baku into the secret agent superfan he is now? Or was his adoration of secret agents just something that made him even easier for them to manipulate?

- Nox's shadowy formless Nightmare definitely feels like it's either the thing keeping him comatose, or the thing that'll grant him full-on Rider powers once defeated. Or both. Both is an option.

- I like the idea that, if Capsems are the power of bad dreams, Baku is getting his first ever Super Form via harnessing the power of his own bad dream; his very first bad dream, even!

- Baku seems like he's in a darker place this episode... both literally and also figuratively. Besides the aforementioned assassination orders, there's how he shoved aside Nem and Little Baku after declaring he'll "use anything" to put an end to his bad dream, and now once he's in Nox's dream he just dismissively tells Nem to play the role she was given. And barely smiling or expressing any emotion after he gets his order from Zero. It's a far cry from the happy-go-lucky nice guy Baku of before.

- Anyway, as for that Super Form, I must say I quite like Zeztz's Plasma Form. The golden suit looks cool, and I really like the lightning and super speed powers; in general, and including here. I was gonna compliment it on being a Super Form that doesn't come with a shiny new toyetic weapon, but then he broke out the bow. That said, I do also really like bow weapons, so that's just another win! And I am glad that he relies on fisticuffs just as much as his shiny new toyetic weapon.

- Nox give a clear answer to literally any question challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

- Minami is definitely (rightfully) a lot more suspicious about Zero than her brother is, and willing to stand up to him. The way she's demanding to know what Zero has him doing, and then straight up slapping Zero before telling him off for trying to make her kindhearted brother into a murderer. Honestly it made my jaw drop when she did that, more than anything else in this episode. Like, cool as the Plasma Form fight was, it takes some serious guts to walk up and slap a big strong secret agent robot.

Though, Zero's not technically wrong that these kinds of dirty missions are just a part of the secret agent world that Baku loved so much...

(That said, I am still 100% on the "CODE is evil" train, and even more than I already was after this episode.)

Given that Toei tried it before somewhat in Kamen Rider Build (in this case, the mentor being evil), I don't mind the idea being revisited.

Considering that lightning strikes him while he's carrying a spy manga, I'm leaning toward the second option. Although it's unknown how long he attended prep school before that, so it would be good to see some other agents/students for comparison

When it comes to the situation around CODE, all I'll note is that I'm not convinced that they're entirely evil. Shady, sure. But I'm willing to wait for an eventual big reveal rather than call anything about them outright.

I can definitely understand that. Maybe they are not entirely evil, but are about "the end justifies the means", similar to Nox.

I really enjoyed this episode and seeing Baku finally questioning everything is a weird relief? I don't know how to explain it at this moment, but I'm glad that he actually somewhat gave himself time to really consider the situation. And sure, it came at the cost of him going deep into his subconscious via black hole, but it also gave us a view of his childhood.

Could Baku be a sleeper agent that is awakened when CODE needs a job or two done? Perhaps. Could his designation as Number 7 indicate that there were prior agents, other than Odaka? I could see that. I can also see Baku pushing back enough where Zero has another agent waiting to take over the missions.

Speaking of NOX, I'd like to expand a bit on my theory about the three once-united, now-separated entities. Nightmare-Darkness, briefly shown in the episode, is the main fear and enemy of Odaka?the main, human, and emotional part of the trinity. Zero, on the other hand, is pure logic, and after separating from Odaka, he begins to fight Nightmares without regard for the consequences, focused solely on completing missions. NOX, on the other hand, is a practical agent whose job it is to protect Odaka by carrying out Zero's missions. But when the trinity broke apart, he became completely focused on awakening Odaka, which was necessary to save him from the Darkness. That's why he's willing to literally destroy the world if only he could awaken Odaka and thus save him from the Darkness. This could also explain the reluctance to explain anything, since the agent is supposed to learn information, not share it. It's entirely possible that, as a created personality, it knows little itself and is guided only by simple axioms, such as: "Darkness is evil," "Zero is a traitor," "We must wake up at any cost."
Of course, this is just a theory, and it doesn't explain why NOX himself is #4. I'm probably wrong in making Zero part of the trinity and he is an external force. Still, if NOX isn't identical to Odaka and only vaguely understands what he's doing, it could explain his extremely contradictory actions.

It really is interesting how I keep seeing people filling in the blanks of Zeztz episodes in such wildly different ways. For the record, I think DreamSword is right on the money with this one? The way that scene smartly plays off an established catchphrase by having Baku saying "arise" right before the lightning strikes especially gives it a rare level of clarity in this show. He wasn't shoving Nem aside there, she falls over as a consequence of what Baku is actually doing, which is helping his younger self to his feet. Baku helps his younger self stand tall against his fear rather than cower in terror, all in the name of waking up. It tracks with the larger decision he's making to embrace the power of bad dreams, and is even cohesive with a lot of what made me love the premiere so much. It's pretty much exactly the kind of moment I want to see from Zeztz more often?

That being said, I do still see how all of this might not come across, because as usual, I also personally feel a lot of this ends up muddled?

There's a lot you're left to assume, even though assuming things usually just gets, well, at least it seems to get *me* in trouble with this show. For example, it's pretty vague how exactly Baku even ended up where he is at the start? They don't spell it out very thoroughly, but like, it's ~probably~ safe to assume between the previous talk of Capsems being affected by his mind and Baku's early line here about his mind testing him that his own lingering doubts are what caused him to lose control of that black hole?

So like, that's the kind of stuff you have to deal with from the word go in Zeztz, and that feeling carries right through to the climax, where it's difficult to properly square Baku's newfound determination to get answers from NOX with his simultaneous decision to embrace the role given to him in NOX's dream, which is killing NOX? Speaking of smart direction choices in this one, how about that moment where the Nightmare appears behind NOX's shoulder, only for him to look back and see Baku? It's kinda like Baku *is* the monster coming for NOX...but Baku also brings light to the darkness surrounding him. As if Kamihoriuchi recognized the contradiction and just decided to emphasize both parts visually at the same time. Which is pretty brilliant, if that's the idea, but because this is Zeztz, trying to get a better understanding of what's happening by reading into it deeper ultimately leaves me at least as confused as I was beforehand. :p

It's cool to see how the two sets, Baku's bedroom and the CODE base, just exist next to each other like that.

Man, I really love super speed upgrades like this! With the mysterious rainy backdrop as well, this episode reminds me a lot of Build RabbitTank Sparkling's debut.

I only saw the "brought to you by key to fun Bandai" part once before when I watched the first episode RAW, so I was surprised to see it in the official stream!

That's a great mature and healthy reaction to adversity. Trauma only wins if we don't take the inspiration to learn and grow from it. Nox would rather wage war against evil, by committing more evil, than use the evil for good. Which is why he's stuck, literally, in his past, fighting a Nightmare who's untouchable as long as he denies its root in his mind. How pitiful that a lucid dreamer would inhibit himself like this. Shows that even with the difference in experience, Seven beats Four in natural talent.

I mean, Kamen Rider Zeztz is pretty serious, sure, but I think human trafficking drug dealers was also serious.

Yeah, while CODE seems ruthless and ethically questionable, we should expect that from an organization of agents. As Zero tells Minami, Baku knows the unpleasant side of the job and he's prepared to eliminate the enemy, as an agent would. After all, CODE's enemies aren't going to play fair, so they can't afford to either. Reminds me of when Ace taught Keiwa this important moral in Geats Episode 2, which some people mistook for malice. Sometimes a moral is best learned and remembered the hard way.

I agree that DreamSword has the better take on this. Baku's excitement from lucid dreaming comes from his desire to take control of his present, in a way that reality denies him. Nem is an empathetic person and naturally comforts the scared kid Baku, can't hold that against her, but Seven understands that this nightmare is something he needs to confront alone, or else he cannot move on and take back control of the dream. Seven will "use anything to end the bad dream", as that's what an agent and a Kamen Rider does. I also like the detail of Seven instinctively knowing there's something he's forgetting, since he "knows his own mind". Even if he can't see the truth hiding in darkness, he won't turn away from it.

Oh, is *that* what the... that bit with Baku's thoughts in the raindrops was another of those slick tricks that left me kinda confused, because I was hung up on the idea that there's obviously something about his past Baku doesn't know, but yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense. Tracks with how right before that they contrast his immediate suspicion against Nem being more willing to write off NOX being there as just dream weirdness, too.

Likewise, I don't feel as though Baku was being mean toward Nem at all when he told her play her part later on. It's moreso a different way of him saying "Just keep on as you have been." He's trying to give her some relief, not stress.

It's also nicely set up and followed through on at the start of the episode, wherein Baku almost immediately realizes where exactly the black hole flung him.