Kamen Rider Zeztz Case #25- "Get Started" Discussion
 

Baku awakens in a hospital.
Is it possible his previous adventures were nothing but a dream?

I mean... yes? That's kind of the entire premise of the show.

It's an Un-Zeztz-edented development! Everything we've watched from the past 24 episodes HAS BEEN A DREAM BAKU HAD AFTER GETTING HIT BY THE CAR IN EPISODE 1!!!!

So of course we get fun moments like Baku knowing who Fujimi and Nasuka are before he's even met them!

It was kind of nice to see Bike Robot Zero again, even if Zero is confused as to how Baku has a bunch of Capsems (and Catastrom) that he's not supposed to have yet and Baku wants nothing to do with Zero now. Couldn't Zero have at least left the bike though?

It's kind of sad to see Baku and Nem's relationship get reset back from episode 2...although I guess it's karma that now BAKU is the one to handcuff Nem with the cuffs she used on him back then!

Guess we're just speedrunning stuff like Nem finding out about her mom and Baku not wasting any time fighting the Bomb Nightmare this go-around. The only thing more explosive than a bomb? Zeztz Catastrom.

NOX is back! And for once HE is confused as to what's going on and how Baku has Catastrom already...and that Baku might know more than all of them do at this point. At least he was nice to Nem though. Is NOX going to be nicer and less vague this go-around?

Did they actually have Lady's actress in that scene or just someone in her dress?

Okay, so I'm guessing Baku awakening Catastrom was to make him a fully-realized agent...but now that he's foreseen them betraying him, and is a possible risk to Code: Somnia, they need to speedrun Kureha rejoining the team with "Shock Therapy" to have her and 5 take Baku out.

So because Baku didn't initially fail against the Bomb Nightmare, it never possessed Fujimi, never proved Black Cases' legitimacy, and Fujimi lost his job. And because Nasuka didn't get her 24 episodes of character development, she's happy to ditch him. But Baku needs his team, and if that means telling Fujimi and Nasuka things only he could know from his dream, then he'll do it.

Baku knows the full weight of the reality that he witnessed in his dream, but he's still determined as ever to help Nem and those he cares about.

I love how Fujimi apparently came through the door like a normal person this time, but NASUKA is the one who came through the window, completely unprompted. Also, first chronological "THIS IS A BLACK CASE!"

Baku finally has his team again, and together they'll have to find some way to stop his bad dream from becoming a reality!

Could Baku dream project like that the entire time!?

Next week: CODE Agent Battle Royale and...Kamen Rider Dawn!

Unfortunately, I think I have officially checked out my emotional investment in Zeztz.

Like, thematically, I get it. In real life, people have been able to have dreams that predict the future. But narratively speaking, I feel robbed.

All of that great character development we got throughout the show up to now essentially just got undone, and all for the sake of the plot twist that seems to be CODE having locked a bunch of people in a simulation of some kind.

I would've been fine with it if this episode were simply a "what-if" story, and then we returned to the story at hand, but no. The episode leans all in on the only "real" part of the show being most of episode 1. It's the sort of storytelling decision that I don't think was executed in a way that satisfied me.

Will I still watch the show to the end? Yes. But it's going to have to do alot to get me back in its good graces after this. I'm not angry. I'd drop the show entirely if I was. But this episode seriously killed my motivation towards watching further episodes as they air. So I'll probably just stick to the proper uploads on YouTube from here on out.

I'm almost positive that I'm in the minority on this, and I wish anyone who has feelings opposite to mine to continue having a great time with the show going forward.

Big risk this episode and I would say it's hard to see if it will pay off until further down the line because it could make the first half feel pointless in exchange for a huge shake up and a massive character moment for Baku. For now not knowing what the future holds this episode was hype, so excited to see what CODE really is. I just hope the side cast's character development doesn't take a hit thanks to them basically being speed-runned.

Upfront, I do have to commend the commitment to actually going through with using "the entire first half of the show was a dream" as a plot point. Even when you "decide" on something like that from the start, I would not have been surprised to see that concept end up as nothing more than a lot of foreshadowing that was ultimately repurposed or outright left hanging entirely, just a neat anecdote the creators will explain in interviews where they discuss how they decided to back out of doing something that might've been a little too crazy.

Because, yeah, I do think it's an insane idea? There's no way the staff didn't already have the same doubts I'm about to mention. You risk the viewers never trusting any of the rules you establish again, you risk making a massive chunk of the story feel like it didn't matter... the trope itself is far from uncommon or without merit, but in this specific context, for something like Kamen Rider, where you're telling this sprawling 40+ episode narrative? And you want people to be okay with 24 of those being put in that position? It takes some serious confidence to even try and walk that tightrope!

In that sense, without speaking for anyone else's experience, I do kinda feel like my relationship with this show now has to build itself back up from scratch in the same way Baku has to recreate all these connections only he remembers. But hey, maybe that's just a chance to do things better the second time around, right?

Honestly, despite all the rational reasons I didn't particularly want to see anything like this, I wasn't even slightly bothered by anything in this episode? On the contrary, I really got into it pretty quickly. There was a basic fun to watching Baku nervously scramble around trying to do a speedrun of the pilot trilogy that instantly created a thrilling momentum in the places where I find these sort of looping stories can drag. And then from there, I think they did a great job establishing that clear new direction, with the new theme song kicking in as Baku draws together the people he knows he count on most to help him with a mission he's learned he can't let anyone decide for him. (And indeed, that mission is literally the exact opposite of what Zero told him when handing over the ZEZTZ Driver.)

Even though there is that inherent sadness in the way things have gone back to square one in so many ways, the ways in which they haven't at all make a solid case very quickly for how everything we saw still "counts" for something. The strength of those pilot episodes meant that Baku was always kinda my anchor in this show. As long as I felt like I got what was going through his head in a given moment, I could always buy into that journey he was on on that level. Which is probably why some of my biggest complaints early on were times where I didn't understand things like, say, how Baku almost seemed to be dozing off when it came to a lot of the larger Plot stuff I figured he'd be as curious about as I was.

So hey, if that is the big picture concept here? If the back half of this show is going to be Baku blossoming into this focused hero using the experience he gained in his sleep to take charge and turn that bad dream into a good morning? Yeah, I think I'm down for that.

I don't think I have had such a desperate need to watch the next episode of a Rider show since thefinal 4 episodes of Saber (not counting the Revice crossover).

This was gutsy, hard to pull of and an insane idea.

And somehow, they pull it off flawlessly!

This episode is as stuffed and paced as fast as any episode 1, but given the experience with this world and cast, they were able to nail it!

The way they make everything till now still matters is great!

The power Baku has accumulated leads to an immediate different outcome, and the knowledge he has about his friends leads to them all assembling when he needs them most. It wasn't Seven's pure determination; it was his belief in them, the wish to help, and pulling back when he came in too strong and was about to hurt them, giving them space.

We now know how great and awful everyone in this show can be, and we can see how they edge out that happy ending for themself. This time, they can become even better. Not broken people, angry and confused at the cruelty of the world, but people who will defy that.

God, Zeztz is just knocking it out of the park so hard!

This is exactly how I like my Rider! And it really feels the change in production, starting with Gavv, to be able to simulcast in China has paid off in spades in this season. I don't think this episode would have been nearly as good if they had more chances to "course correct" with viewer feedback like they used to.

Not much to say for me beyond I dug this epsiode a ton and this new arc feels bold and very promising to me. Also Dawn next week is super exciting.

Also (forgive the machine translation) but turns out the crew was very careful to not film the moon at any point in the "real world" during the first 24 episodes of Zeztz as it would've given the twist away immediately, which implies that this was always the direction the show was building towards right from the start, so that's neat.

That was my impression when Baku seemed surprised at what a normal moon looked like.

Just got done reading the full interview that excerpt came from and there's a very interesting new piece of info about Dawn in there that I'm really curious to see how it plays out.

It's cool how the first episode was called Start and now this one after the plot twist is called Get Started, as Seven is assigning his own missions rather than waiting for them.

Play Back doesn't give me the agent genre feeling like Visions, so I kind of want it to get the You Be One Winner treatment. In hindsight though, I think You Be One Winner was a great OP while it lasted and I'm glad it stuck around as an insert like Busters Ready Go. Well, if it's here to stay, then I hope Visions at least gets the Busters Ready Go treatment and plays for all the climactic moments.

Zero cannot get out and stay at the same time.

I'm worried that Baku may have played his hand too early though. He had the opportunity to become a double agent and find out the true meaning of the darkness inside CODE.

We're totally watching Ethan Hunt and Edge of Tomorrow in the same show!

Being vague is less fun when you realize the new guy's more informed than you. Yep, Nox will need to find a new hobby now.

Oh, speaking of Nox, turns out his defenders' conclusion that he was only pretending to murder Five and Six and children are pretty much debunked, as even though the real world he tried to destroy wasn't actually real, he believed it was.

I hope you only have good dreams from now on as well.

You mean like how Houtarou's father was actually Evil Ikki all along and while adventuring in Granute world, he took out the mafia before they could assassinate the Stomachs? :p

That explains why nobody in the show has ever talked about it until now, with the revelation that Baku hasn't been dreaming lucidly since the Gun Nightmare incident. He's been looking at the same red moonscoop as everybody else, thinking it's totally normal, only remembering what the moon actually looks like when he wakes up.

Please share!

Basically it was revealed in the interview that Dawn is fully aware of Baku's precognitive dream and is intent on meddling in this new route.

The full quote (and again forgive the machine translation) is: "Regarding future developments, he said, "With the 'Strong New Game' depicted in episode 25 and the 'Butterfly Effect,' even more exciting developments await," and added, "A new Kamen Rider, Dawn, who observed Baku's precognitive dream, will appear and disrupt the situation as if refusing to let this be just another 'second playthrough,' so you'll never get bored. Look forward to it!!"" (the person interviewed is producer Hideaki Yanaka, head producer of Zeztz)

I just realized that because Baku stopped the Bomb Nightmare from appearing in the real world, nobody got infected by the Nightmare butterflies so most of the Black Case incidents they'd dealt with won't happen. And I guess all the victims of the week will have to get by without facing/overcoming their Nightmare with Baku's help?

Also NOX should still be in a coma, right?
It'll be interesting to compare when we get actual visuals but I feel like "Playback" is going to be a lot less trippy visually than Visions was...for obvious reasons, now.

That reminds me, I was thinking that Dawn's eyes kind of look like a butterfly. So he's the true lucid dreamer, being aware of everything that has happened and the likely consequences that may occur with divergence. Perhaps he will steal the National Secret before Baku! However, he's also not on any side except his own, a wild card, so his intervention might work either for or against him depending on the situation. Nox ironically is the least informed Rider.

Yep, I hope Miyuki can still find the courage to be honest with her husband.

I kind of loved the trippiness and mysteriousness of the Visions OP though.

EDIT: 2800th post!

He was so thrown off he couldn't even vaguepost about the Darkness of Code for once!
It definitely made it unique, though I won't miss that long shot of Baku just walking to the camera at the end.
Congratulations!

I was holding off judgement on the "all just a dream" reveal until I saw this episode, and now... yeah, I like it! It was a very risky move by the writers, but I love what this premonition does to the story and to Baku as the protagonist. IMO it actually makes the crushing defeat in the previous episode feel more meaningful, not less, because there was no comeback, no last-minute turnaround, no way Baku somehow managed to make things work out. He just lost!

And now he has to move forward knowing that if he doesn't prevent that premonition in time, it will happen in the real world too. Even the way he acts seems like this really lit a fire under him (shoutout to Ryutaro Imai for showing that so well, especially in the final scene of gathering his team). It's like if in the beginning he was in the dark, blindly following orders and chasing whispers of information, then he started to show sparks of independence and demanding answers, and now he's ignited into a flame, setting his own mission in open rebellion against CODE, and while there's still a lot he doesn't know, he also has knowledge no one else does.

There's a also some really neat symbolism between waking up from a dream and breaking free from a lie. If everything he did under CODE was him being lied to and used, a "dream" in the metaphorical sense, what better way to emphasize that in Zeztz's context than by making it a literal dream? And what better way to show him finally breaking free from their control than by waking up?

Honestly feels like the missing piece slotted in here to really establish this show as something uniquely its own. The twist was well earned, and they stuck to their guns and didn't pull the trigger on it too early. That doesn't mean I don't wish the first half of this was better, as I wonder how many bounced on this before we even got to this point.

But oh well, for those of us still here, now we get to see Baku New Game+ his way through the Nightmares and see what new directions it takes the story in, the universe has already had some major alterations just in this episode alone and given how well they landed this twist, I am excited to see how they pay off these changes, and I hope they hold their nerve throughout.

Well....definitely took me by surprise to find out everything up to this point was a dream. And I applaud them going this route full tilt.

He definitely jumped the gun telling Nem about her mother. You know, butterfly effect and all. But at least he's getting a head start getting the Dream Team together while also pushing Zero away.