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General Super Sentai Thoughts
With a thread for thoughts on the Riders, it seemed like the time for one about Sentai.
It's no great surprise that Ishinomori was responsible for Kamen Rider, but what about his role in bringing forth the first Sentai (or the one we consider to be first): Himitsu Sentai Gorenger!? In the Rider thread, it's noted that most if not all of the Showa Riders are those who fight fascists and authority. In Goranger, the team is part of authority by being part of the defense group EAGLE, which is surprising in that Shocker was symbolized with an eagle! There have been other defense and military groups in Sentai, like the Earth Defense Force of Changeman and U.A.O.H. in Ohranger. However, there have also been the rogues and rebels who fight vast and powerful factions who maintain a stranglehold on the peace of the universe. Gokaiger VS. Zangyack or Kyuranger VS. Jark Matter to name some noteworthy examples. Part of the detail regarding Goranger is that it was billed as Kamen Rider but with five of them. I have seen some information that suggests that the conception phase of what became Stronger considered the idea of Five Riders, but it was too different for the time, hence why we ended-up with Stronger and Goranger. Of note, the Go-Riders were apparently the realization of this originally-unrealized concept (years after the fact, of course). Perhaps one of the main question that all this comes down to is: What were Ishinomori's thoughts on Gorenger and Sentai at large? Perhaps there are other, more pressing questions. Perhaps someone's response isn't even a question as opposed to just being a conclusion one came to. What are your thoughts on Sentai? |
I have always wondered what constitutes as an 'Extra Hero'. It would make sense for the likes of DekaMaster and Princess ShinkenRed as they are after the proper 6th Ranger (even though DekaMaster came before DekaBreak but whatever). And for Signalman because he looks nothing like the Carrangers.
But what about the likes of Ninjaman and BullBlack? They pretty much served the role of the 6th Rangers, especially BullBlack, why not just call him a 6th Ranger as well? Yes, their designs are different from the core 5, but the same can be said to MagiShine and AbareKiller. |
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AbareKiller isn't exactly a sixth Ranger, but he maintains that status. Remember, AbareRed had the AbareMax form and then there was the ally who became AbarePink...briefly! MagiShine has a Ranger form, but he also has a Sky Saint form as opposed to the main MagiRanger who call upon the power of the Sky Saints to transform. BullBlack is an Extra Hero, but he handles the role of sixth Ranger. Remember, Gingaman was something of a callback to '80s Sentai and the "-man" suffix. I view the BullBlack role as taking the Extra Hero status instead of sixth Ranger cause the sixth wasn't a thing until Zyuranger in the '90s (with exceptions such as X-1 Mask in Maskman). Also, BullBlack actually left the team to work as a hired hand (he was forced, yes, but still). And third, the OG BullBlack was an anti-hero with his own agenda until Red's brother took over the role. The 'Extra Hero' thing, and who was one, is something that got a near-clear definition in Gokaiger. Most of them are Armored Heroes, with exceptions like Princess ShinkenRed, as she is a Red Ranger who is also the seventh Ranger of Shinkenger. Even DekaMaster, DekaSwan, and MagiMother have armor of some kind. Pretty obvious that many of the Rangers from Kyoryuger would also be considered 'Extra Heroes' like Princess ShinkenRed. Based on all this, I think the best answer is this: - Sixth Ranger: Any Ranger who is revealed as a literal sixth Ranger or who joins the team as a sixth Ranger and is on near or equal footing as the rest of the team and who's suit is made of spandex (from a real-world perspective) like the rest of the team. Such characters are always next to the team, have their own focus episodes, and their own individual Mecha which will usually but not always combine with the main team Mecha. In situations in which there is no sixth Ranger but a sixth Member, then that Hero will likely serve as a substitute or the powers of that Hero will be used by someone new who will serves as a substitute. - Extra Hero: Any Hero or Ranger who has a different form than the team and who serves a different function than any one member of the main team. Most who qualify have a form which is predominately armored, but exceptions exist. This Hero may also have a power-set which is NOT necessarily the same as the power-set of the main team. The abilities and/or Mecha of such a Hero will likely be very different from an actual Ranger as many who have a Mecha will probably NOT combine with the team Mecha and many such Heroes will have the ability to enlarge at will. Such a Hero will likely have different origins and agendas than the main team and occasionally butt heads with that team. Such a Hero will also be introduced much later in the conflict, though exceptions exist. In rare instances, such a Hero could be introduced early as a villain and then be reformed later. |
The proper Japanese terms are tsuika senshi and bangai senshi. Tsuika senshi is what people refer to as the sixth ranger with Dragon Ranger being the most famous. Tsuika senshis are those that are added to the main roster and with a few exceptions become a regular household despite their late bird status.
Bangai senshi are the extra heroes that are usually anomalies with Ninjaman being the most famous. They are either aesthetically far more unique than the main roster while a tsuika senshi maintains key elements such as Wolzard Fire, Kurojishi Lio. Some of them are one-shots such as Deka Gold, Midoninger, Gosei Green,etc. Some may be a brief replacement or a facsimile such as Shinken Red/Kaoru Shiba or the two Akaningers respectively. Others could also be variants such as Zyuoh Bird. Of course, we do have a few exceptions here and there, such as Time Fire, who is officially a tsuika senshi for the Timerangers despite being red as well and can easily be categorized as a bangai senshi. In the case of Kyoryuger, Uchi/Kyoryu Gold is the sole tsuika senshi of the team while Cyan, Gray, Violet, and Silver are Bangai. As for X-1 Mask, because he is a one-shot and also not being recognized as the first official tsuika senshi, it is technically a bangai senshi. In the case of teams that start off as trios such as Liveman, Hurricanger, Abaranger, Gekiranger, and Go-Busters, they tend to include the fourth and fifth as regular members with the only exception being Abaranger. Abaranger includes Abare Black as the fourth regular while Abare Killer is considered the tsuika senshi. And thank you TokuKnight89 for making this thread. It had to be done. :rock: |
I kind of tend to think mainly in terms of whether or not they're a person that transforms, that might be wrong but for me there's always something off for me in tokusatsu when it is just a suit.
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One thing I found on twitter that seemed interesting. Someone calculated how balanced the cast of each season is based on the number of warriors, how many focus episodes they get (for the purposes of this, episodes with equal screen time for two chapters are counted as one for each, but ones that either don’t focus on a particular character or focus on a villain/side character are excluded) in a season with their length of episodes. I’ll post the results from most balanced to least, complete with number of heroes.
1. Goggle V (5 heroes, 50 episodes) 2. Goseiger (6 heroes, 50 episodes) 3. GoGoV (5 heroes, 50 episodes) 4. Gingaman (6 heroes, 50 episodes) 5. Gokaiger (6 heroes, 51 episodes) 6. Go-onger (7 heroes, 50 episodes) 7. Turboranger (5 heroes, 51 episodes) 8. Denziman (5 heroes, 51 episodes) 9. Kakuranger (6 heroes, 53 episodes) 10. Sun Vulcan (4 heroes, 50 episodes) 11. Ohranger (6 heroes, 48 episodes) 12. Hurricaneger (6 heroes, 51 episodes) 13. Fiveman (5 heroes, 48 episodes) 14. LuPat (7 heroes, 51 episodes) 15. Liveman (5 heroes, 49 episodes) 16. Dekaranger (7 heroes, 50 episodes) 17. Gaoranger (6 heroes, 51 episodes) 18. Changeman (5 heroes, 55 episodes) 19. Timeranger (6 heroes, 51 episodes) 20. Gorenger (6 heroes, 84 episodes) 21. Flashman (5 heroes, 50 episodes) 22. Carranger (6 heroes, 48 episodes) 23. Battle Fever (7 heroes, 51 episodes) 24. Megaranger (6 heroes, 51 episodes) 25. Boukenger (7 heroes, 49 episodes) 26. Bioman (6 heroes, 51 episodes) 27. Dynaman (5 heroes, 51 episodes) 28. Abaranger (5 heroes, 50 episodes) 29. Go-Busters (5 heroes, 50 episodes) 30. Magiranger (8 heroes, 49 episodes) 31. Ninninger (6 heroes, 47 episodes) 32. Shinkenger (7 heroes, 49 episode) 33. JAKQ (5 heroes, 35 episodes) 34. Zyuohger (7 heroes, 48 episodes) 35. Dairanger (6 heroes, 50 episodes) 36. Maskman (5 heroes, 51 episodes) 37. Zyuranger (6 heroes, 50 episodes) 38. ToQger (6 heroes, 47 episodes) 39. Gekiranger (5 heroes, 49 episodes) 40. Ryusoulger (7 heroes, 48 episodes) 41. Kyuranger (12 heroes, 48 episodes) 42. Jetman (5 heroes, 51 episodes) 43. Kyoryuger (10 heroes, 48 episodes). |
So basically from what I've gathered, Ninjaman and BullBlack wasn't considered a 6th Ranger but instead an Extra Hero is because they are far more armored than the usual Ranger and even the typical 6th Ranger. That makes sense actually.
And I guess when it comes to MagiShine (and even GoseiKnight), while he is more armored and different than the typical MagiRanger, they just had him as the 6th Ranger since MagiMother and Wolzard already filled the quota of Extra Hero, and because 6th Rangers are more popular. |
I thought that Shinkenger would have Kakuranger-like mechas.
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Does anyone suppose there is a real reason why GekiChopper isn't considered a Sixth Ranger for Gekiranger?
My assumption is that Rio & Mele's redemption arc was the same as AbareKiller (who is a Sixth) and so if AbareKiller could be called a Sixth then Rio & Mele can be a joint Sixth duo for the Gekirangers. But since they weren't rangers they got shuffled into the Bangai Hero category with fellow de facto Sixths Signalman and Black Knight. A common excuse I've heard is this "divide by five" for Gokai Silver Gold Mode (or indeed the Extra Rangers and Bangai Heroes), but I'm not certain about it and I don't know if there's any substance to this claim. Like neither Abaranger, Go-Busters or Gekiranger have six rangers in their roster, but AbareKiller and Beet & Stag Buster are Sixths while GekiChopper isn't, but then Gekiranger is the only one of the three to have other outlier heroes beyond the five rangers. |
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Just got me thinking what if Kenta Sato who played Riki/Red Turbo in Turboranger was Burai/Dragon Ranger with him also being a sentai alumni and have sang the theme song for Zyuranger.
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Looking back now, Bio hunter Silva from Bioman was a pretty cool villain. I also love how he was pretty much a recycled Hakaider yet managed to stand out on his own.
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Gekiranger had 2 additional rangers and 2 extra heroes. They'd have to give an arbitrary reason for why Violet wouldn't also be considered a "6th" ranger if they gave Chopper that designation. |
Mind if this thread is also used for Power Rangers? It'll kill two birds with one stone and at least I think it would be better than making a Power Rangers thoughts thread and have that more likely buried because let's face it, people don't really talk about Power Rangers that much aside from Lightning Collection and to a lesser extent the Boom comics.
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Think about it. In Decade, Natsumi has a dream of a large, all-encompassing battle which ends on Decade himself before he is seen in reality! In Megaforce, Troy has a dream of a large, all-encompassing battle which ends on Robo Knight himself before he is seen in reality! I suppose one could also draw parallels between All Riders VS. Dai-Shocker and The Legendary Battle, but it's a stretch. As for the Star Wars angle, I'm thinking more of the Armada in this case. What is the Armada? Is it known throughout the universe as just "The Armada" or does it have another more drawn-out name? In Star Wars Episode Three, Palpatine says that "...the Republic will be re-organized into the First Galactic Empire...", but that's about it regarding naming conventions cause every Movie or Series just gives "The Empire" or "Imperial" this and "Imperial" that. I don't see Troy as Luke or Anakin in this regard, and I don't think he summoned "The Force" to free Robo Knight from Vrak's control! That was just them copying Goseiger and skimping on the explanation. I suppose one could view the Morphin Grid as the Power Ranger version of The Force, but it's a stretch. P.S.: Robo Knight's weird and unexplained final appearance doesn't necessarily make him a "Force Ghost"! |
Well as long as we’ve stopped making this a “what makes a sixth ranger” thread in all but name.
What’s your general opinion on US-exclusive mooks? Do you think here should be more of them? Or are you like me, really not liking hem and thinking that it means a lot of perfectly good fight scenes end up on the cutting room floor? Because that’s a sore point for me because of how overdesigned US Mooks tended to be, meaning hey couldn’t do any serious action with them for fear of damaging the suits. |
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Except probably Kyuranger's mooks. I mean Sentai these days would have detailed mooks, Kyuranger was a massive step down |
So now that Takaiwa is no longer bound to play protagonist riders, I wonder if we will see him do sentai shows again. Would love to see him play a tsuika or bangai senshi at the least, or even better, go the way of Niibori and Fukuzawa doing action director gigs coming up with fight choreo.
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Hey so anyone else notice this pattern
Gokaiger: Lots of collectables Go-Buster: mech focused/few collectables Kyoryuger: Lots of collectables Toqger: Mech focused/few collectables Nininger: Seemed to try to have collectables Zyuohger: Very Few Collectables Kyurangers: Lots of collectables Lupin/Pat: Mech focused/few collectables Ryusoulger: Lots of collectables Kirameiger: Very few collectables |
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Ryusoulger is the first Super Sentai I ever watched completely. Does any other Super Sentai compare to the Shear Power the Ryusoulgers have? I don't ever remember seeing any Power Rangers fight 3 giant monsters with no Zords, not to mention actually Destroying one of them.
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I really want to see how Ryusoulger/Dino Fury compare to them. |
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- King Mondo and Cogs (Zeo - Good as Gold): Second time Mondo enlarges, unlike Ohranger counterpart Bacchusfundo who only enlarged once! Cogs, the counterpart to the Bara Soldiers, did not enlarge at all in Ohranger! Mondo is defeated, but not destroyed during the battle. No actual Megazord is used here. - Goldgoyle (Turbo - Chase into Space, Part 1): Fights the Rescue Megazord and Turbo Megazord, but is not destroyed by either. Defeat is altered footage and different from counterpart Exhaus in Carranger. - Dark Specter (In Space - Countdown to Destruction, Part 1): No Sentai counterpart. A seasonal villain, but stays largely away from the front lines and isn't seen constantly. Always depicted as giant. Never fights a Megazord. Defeated by another seasonal villain. - Conwing (Time Force - Quantum Secrets): Debut of Quantum Ranger Mega Battle. Defeat is new footage and different from Timeranger counterpart Saboteur Mayden. - Serpentera (Wild Force - Forever Red): Technically, a Mighty Morphin' Season 2 villain Zord! Is brought back years later, and finally destroyed in one of the most unsatisfying and anti-climatic defeats of a deadly superweapon in franchise history! Fate is entirely different from Dairanger counterpart Daijinryu, who never appeared in Gaoranger! - GoldenRod (Dino Thunder - Golden Boy): Defeat is the same as Abaranger counterpart Giganoid #2 Hero. - Octomus, or "The Master" (Mystic Force - Mystic Fate, Part 2): Defeat is the same as Magiranger counterpart N Ma. A seasonal villain, but not constantly seen. - Vulturus (Operation Overdrive - Once A Ranger, Part 2): Defeat is relatively the same as Boukenger counterpart, Lemurian Mythical Beast, but Overdrive Red is unmorphed! - Dai Shi (Jungle Fury - Now The Final Fury): A seasonal villain who mostly used the armored forms of Rio from Gekiranger, but who's final form was Mugenryu. Defeat incorporates source footage. - Sledge (Dino Supercharge - End of Extinction): No Sentai counterpart. Is enlarged, but doesn't fight a Megazord! A seasonal villain. - Galvanax (Ninja Steel - Galvanax Rises): Defeat is visually similar to defeat of Ninninger counterpart Gengetsu Kibaoni, but does not incorporate a Zord formation! A seasonal villain. - Lord Draven (Super Ninja Steel - Dimensions in Danger): Enlarges like his Ninninger Movie counterpart Juza Yumihari, but is not destroyed the same way. Technically, Draven's defeat involves a single Zord, but no actual Megazord is seen or used. |
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OK, I watched every single one. Ryusoulger has them all beat in my opinion just from having so many different powers to actually fight with. They fought 3 Giant Monsters without Zords and dealt significant damage to all of them. I think Timeforce, and Dino Thunder come the closest. But nothing I saw looked as Badass as this. Again just my opinion
https://youtu.be/Z1nKKv5HCHI |
Something I've just been thinking about because of the conversations in the End Of Power Rangers thread (and also partly due to what I'm currently watching) is the whole Sentai Is Doing Badly thing. Regardless of how true the sales numbers are, just want to assume for a second for the sake of argument that Ryusoulger didn't help much, they're still in the red and Kiramager might not help much either.
Considering all that, a lot of people have come to the conclusion that that means Sentai would go on a big hiatus at best, and I can see where that's coming from, but... is it not more possible they might pull an Ultraman? Lower their budgets, do smaller seasons, have less and 'safer' merchandise? Sentai even if it's not currently performing up to standards is STILL a huge and very profitable franchise, after all! If what's being suggested is that it's not doing as well anymore, then surely the more logical conclusion is that it'll simply keep things to a smaller scale to keep what profits it still has? |
If Sentai does end up scaling things down, makes me wonder if the new standard going forward would be a 3-person team instead of 5.
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I'd be pretty down for a group of 3 honestly, especially since it's been aaaages since we last saw one -- almost 10 years, in fact!
They tend to have tighter team dynamics and more often than not have a pretty dedicated fan following. Abaranger, Hurricaneger, Go-Busters, Gekiranger... |
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Seriously Liveman is a must watch. Last Showa sentai team with a lot of familiar faces, great story and villains, great show overall about friendship, greed, redemption, many first attempts too. Gave us our first female blue ranger, Takeru's dad from Ghost was the yellow ranger, first time both green and black rangers were available, and first time two robots combined into a bigger super robot. Heck Hurricanger's premise and setup borrowed heavily from the show. It was the talk of the town too apparently because Daisuke Shima who was a known singer at the time was announced as the red ranger. |
Yeah, I mean Liveman is the iconic three-person team. Maybe he was just going for recent ones, idk. The 80s sentai are all instantly iconic and memorable though, even if Sun Vulcan admittedly I'm guessing is not for everyone.
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Alright, this probably belongs in the “what are you watching” thread, but it’s more of a discussion point if I put it here. I’ve got through 16 episodes of Go-Busters, with the 5 assembled, I’ve decided to take after a reviewer from TV Tropes and do a list of my opinions of the show so far.
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I'm currently ordering up the shows adapted for Power Rangers and just got the ones for Dino Thunder , Mystic Force and Ninja Steel. (Region Free English Sub.) Next month I'll order the one adapted for SPD. Hurri is the last one released by Shout and I'd very much like to finish the rest of the orders by 2022. Saban and Hasbro skipped 4 of them.
That said due to the screwed up job with Mega Force and other recent adaptions I've as of this month swapped out of Power Rangers. I will next look to watch 1975 - Jet Man eventually. Currently watching the 93 Ninja series through August. After my next 2 orders it'll take till 2022 to watch the 15 series I have on DVD. |
Which Super Sentai Ranger Team has the most variety of Powers? Seems Ryusoulger/Dino Fury has the most. Is there another one?
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Well, there's a lot of ways to look at it. Ryusoulger has a lot of powers, but individually speaking, there's very little unique abilities since they all have access to (Nearly) all the same Souls.
I think one of the ninja themed series or Magiranger may have the most unique abilities between rangers, since for every universal skill, they seem to have a power exclusive to one ranger. |
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