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General Kamen Rider Thoughts
Heya! I thought that maybe we could use a thread like this.
I took inspiration from the "Kamen Rider Die Watches" threads, and wanted to make a place for disorganized thoughts that might come to people while not watching a series. Basically any thing like discussion of themes, character love or hate, general feelings towards a complete series etc Feel free to use this thread for all sorts of discussion. If this is redundant I will delete it. |
This thread is to make some sort of comment ?
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Very good thread idea, and it's something I find myself needing a lot... which is of course why when it's finally made, nothing specific comes to mind! I'm just so wonderful that way.
So in lieu of any specific thought to offer, how about I kick things off with a topic starter? I've said elsewhere that something I like about Kobayashi's writing is that her series are ones that I might not enjoy that much at the time and don't see what the big deal's about, but I end up appreciating to a much greater degree later. OOO and Den-O are big examples of this; I may still not be big on Ryuki but I think more positively of it now than I used to; and outside of Rider I'd also extend this to Shinkenger, Go-Busters and Toqger. All of that to say: does this bode true about any series to anyone else? Not necessarily Kobayashi; her series are just the best examples for me personally. But did anyone here maybe not like, say, Blade or Fourze or anything else on the first time round; but later on came to love them a lot more? |
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Also, hey, global quarantine question for folks: how are you Kamen Ridering in self-isolation? TV shows? Video games? Toys? I've been splitting my time between Ryuki and a SO-DO/Figure-rise backlog. How about y'all? |
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Honestly, with the boxsets of the OG series, Seven, and Return - plus all of Taiga downloaded - I'm doing more Ultra during the (non-mandated, thanks Governor "doctors don't know everything" Reynolds!) stay at home. |
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But I've been getting back to my obsessive roots and patching up the wiki pages for Candy Toy stuff. Now, you too can ask the question "Why does the Phantom Build SODO come with a weird RabbitRabbit Hazard" head? Plus, I caught up on Zero-One (very good), and might try and get back into Blade. See if I can finishe before the end of the year. |
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Since the base form for RabbitRabbit and TankTank, the undersuit, is Hazard Form, with Phantom Build's two heads you can do a mid-transformation-to-RabbitRabbit figure or a mid-transformation-to-TankTank. That's just a hunch. I can't imagine they'd ever feel like making a figure like that normally, but it's easy enough to toss in another head and give people the option. |
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When in doubt about Build, Kurona's right.
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What can I say? I love me some RabbitRabbit; and that was technically its origin! Not sure why the scene stands out so much to me, it just does
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Just a spontaneous thought, but I really dislike Riders whose final forms basically give them all of their other forms' powers. Stuff like Kiwami Arms or Cosmic states. It just completely invalidates any need to ever use any form beyond that.
Like, it's implied Build Genius can do the same, but I think he only really uses like, 2 different powers, so I wouldn't count it. But otherwise, I'm just really not a fan of forms like that. |
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But the problem is those having that kind of final form is rarely utilized fully in the series. |
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I really wish Trideron lived up to it's full potential, because in it's debut when Grimm talks through Shinouske I thought there might be a plot there where Grimm is like now in Shinnouske's brain or something, Also Muteki is great because it's literally hack reality/game hacks mode and looks just amazing. Liner form is such a thematically potent form, and just looks baller. Also at somepoint I have to synch the other promise to Zero forms debut. |
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Oh I only just realized this, but Build (and Ex-aid) didn't have some big CGI form/weapon. I'm thinking of things like the Powerdizer, Dragon from Wizard, Suika arms, Time Mazin, and Mammoth Breaker. It just stands out to me because those have been pretty common since like kiva, I think the only other series I can think off post Den-o that lacks one is OOO and Decade (if you can count Decade).
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For Ex-Aid and Build, I theorise they just weren't able to justify it in the budget; maybe the Ghost and Drive ones didn't sell as well as they would have liked. With Zi-O and Zero-One though, the toylines are in a much smaller scale and that includes the big CGI mechs, so they became much more justifiable financially. |
Maybe they just realised that nothing could live up to the greatness that was Captain Ghost and the Iguana Ghostriker?
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Hell, considering I just finished Build, I think the Hazard Trigger was a great power up due to him losing himself. Even when he manages to extend the amount of time, it's only about 30 seconds before he loses himself at max. Also, considering Final Forms that take all the powers, I think Drive was the worst case, since Type Tridoron not only had all the shift cars, but it could also combine certain ones. It was, literally, objectively superior to everything else Drive could do that the only viable reason to not use Type Tridoron was solely because someone was inside the damn car... |
Here comes a thought.
What do you think Kamen Rider is about these days? (Like, what do you think. You don’t need proof from some producer’s interview or whatever, just your own thoughts. Not to get all Death Of The Author, but once the show gets made it ceases to matter what the intent was in production. You can decide what you think a piece of art is saying to you. Similarly, no wrong answers. An opinion can’t be wrong!) So, and I’m not a Showa dude, it seems like the popular answer is Fighting Darkness With Darkness. Right? Shocker takes a man, turns him into a monster, but that monster uses his power to protect instead of harm. He’s the monster that destroys monsters. He harnesses his misfortune and becomes a hero. And, that’s still a prominent part of the franchise. I just, I don’t think that’s what I get out of Kamen Rider. For me, the theme I’m seeing is The Value Of Empathy In A World Of Violence. More and more of Kamen Rider seems to be about finding connections, taking the time to understand monsters, to try and reform people who do wrong. Secondary Riders need to be brought into the fold, tensions in the group need to be resolved, villains need to be reached out to, etc. A lot of the storytelling is given over to the idea that fighting isn’t always the answer, that hearing someone out nearly always has value. And, I think the Value Of Empathy theme, it’s not a clean break from the Fighting Darkness theme, but an evolution of it. It’s about how much more nuanced the storytelling has gotten, the sense that teaching children to Fight Evil isn’t a fair lesson, isn’t conducive to a healthy society. That it’s more heroic to try and find the good in bad people, to show them how to be good, than it is to just fight bad people. Not everyone needs to be Rider Kicked, and you can’t know that until you try to understand them. The Fighting Darkness With Darkness theme, it’s about a hero who uses his pain to destroy the source of pain. But that’s not really how pain works. It’s not something that can be punched or kicked, it’s something that needs time, support, understanding. The Value Of Empathy theme, it’s about recognizing that everyone’s in pain, and that by recognizing that we can try and deal with our pain together. That we aren’t heroes and monsters, but people who need each other to be our best selves. I’d cite some examples, but they might be spoiler-y. (But: Drive, Ghost, Ex-Aid, Agito, Double, Fourze, Build) Plus, this is just what I’ve been getting out of Kamen Rider, not necessarily a bulletproof theory. If you don’t see it this way, that’s totally cool. I do want to know what everyone is getting out of Kamen Rider as a franchise, though. What do you think Kamen Rider’s about these days? |
I think it's less about "Fighting Darkness With Darkness" and more about "Being A Shining Light In The Darkness." Because despite everything each Rider goes through, despite their origin, despite them all being directly tied to those they face in one form or another, they always strive to make things better for everyone they possibly can.
Wherein that touches upon another theme, which is something anyone who's seen the first Pokemon movie will probably remember(even though I'm hella paraphrasing). "It's not what life gives you that matters, it's what you do with it." |
I want to say the "human lives matter more then peace and justice" quote is still very relevant to kamen rider, but uh, I haven't watched enough rider to fully back that up.
Edit: Oh also I feel like there's something about how empathy is a tool in your belt (heh) not your only option. For people like Dr Banno, Evolt, or Dan Senior, they have to be stripped of power or stopped no matter the cost. Edit 2: Okay definately not "No matter the cost," but like it's not saying punching the fascist is bad. |
Right now? Like this very point in time? I'd say it's about seeing how much shit a bad villain can get away with before completely ruining the entire series.
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For me, a "Rider" is a designation and not just a Hero who rides a motorcycle and kicks evil into oblivion!
Did the Showa Era tend to oversimplify things? Perhaps. Ishinomori probably had a story and theme to tell and Rider was a way of doing that. Plus, the Showa Era started in the '70s, when televised storytelling was more episodic in nature. Having a Hero lament his circumstances on screen wasn't always par for the course. Much of that was left to the disembodied narrator! As the years passed and storytelling became more serialized, one can explore themes differently. Changes in the World and in sensibilities between generations can also affect a theme and who best to represent that theme. The Riders have become those who have a diverse level of intent, not always predicated on someone's expectations. They don't all have to ride a motorcycle or fight for someone else. Some fight for themselves, and that person may not want to be controlled. Such a person may also be offended at the idea of a big Kaijin Army trying to control or kill others, but this is on a character-by-character basis. It might be controversial, but it is definitely more "real". However, the core of what a Rider is remains even among those who aren't in it for others. Even if a Secondary or Third Rider is in it for themselves, a Main Rider tends to be in it for themselves in addition to someone else, even if fighting for another wasn't their initial intention. As to the idea that a Rider is "light" or "darkness", I find myself thinking of Gai from Ultraman Orb! In that series, Gai used the cards of Zoffy and Belial to access the power-up form "Thunder Breaster", which tended to rage out of control due to Belial's darkness. As Gai slowly found himself and his control over that form, he began to repeat a line which has weight here (barring translation inconsistencies) : "I embrace the Darkness to become the Light"! Embracing what a Rider has done to them is part of what made the Showa Riders! Many of them are abducted and modified by an Army and escape before the brainwashing is complete. They then use their newfound power to fight even if nobody else will admit to an evil organization. A Rider was born from hate and darkness, but will affect change with love, peace, and a Rider Kick! In the last two episodes of Wizard, the Heisei Generation aligned to fight a villain who claims to be the progenitor of all of their powers, be it Cards, GaiaMemories, AstroSwitches, etc. With a little help from the next Rider, Gaim, they beat this guy who can't understand how they won even though their power is his power! It's an extension of the "Hero Born From Evil" logic that predicated the Showa Riders. Even if someone is using your darkness, they will change the meaning of that darkness and fight by merging another's darkness with their personal light! In that sense, are they really using the powers of evil or the power of themselves? As for Riders who try to save another, it's understandable and even goes back to the Showa Era! Saving someone who becomes a monster isn't always possible, but if it can be done, all the better. The monster-conversion process takes many forms and not all of those forms can be undone! There are those who will attempt to reach out because the "monster" really isn't one, just a disgruntled person who's made a bad choice. Some fight others to not only halt their agenda, but as a way of proving to them that they aren't in the right; the Rider Kick is meant to illuminate that person's darkness! Can a Rider overcome their pain, or learn to live with it a little easier? Some "overcome" by trying to ensure that nobody else has to undergo that pain! Many accept what happened and more forward to an uncertain, but hopeful future. I think a Rider, especially a modern one, is open to interpretation. They are what you want them to be; a multi-layered "Hero" with no singular definition other than being someone who fights to protect their own dreams or the dreams of others! |
I mean, it depends on the show. You mention Build, but that definitely feels like a "fighting darkness with darkness" show, which Banjou at opne point basically saysis what he's doing. But I think you've also got a point with your empathy theme, which is where I pull what I think would be the defining theme out - "I've suffered, but I'm going to use that to make sure no-one else has to". You could argue that's a fairly generic theme, but since Kamen Rider tends to build the suffering so deep into the series DNA, I feel like it shines through stronger than ever.
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You're right, though! I didn't mean to imply you weren't. |
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Speaking of Love & Peace, and Die's perhaps somewhat exaggerated idea of what the Showa Era was like, here is an insert theme that played in like half of the episodes in BLACK. It may be relevant to the topic at hand, or maybe I just want everyone to hear Black Hole Message. Who can say? It's a little of both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAMkAh1WMHg |
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