[ryan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Without Harrison Kirk would have died during the space jump.

That's not the point. The point is it was Kirk's plan and it worked. You can't expect one person to plan something and pull it off by himself. The reason you have a team is so they can help each other make it work. Just because shit happens and Kirk needed help doesn't make him " someone who needs a bib because he's dribbling down himself", which is one of the comments I object to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Spock was the reason they captured Harrison.

Howso? Because he told Kirk to reconsider the order? It was still Kirk's decision and plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

And you mean when they go across the ship? And where Harrison ends up beating the absolute crap out of everyone? And then it's Spock who ends up taking the ship out?

Again, Harrison wasn't alone in the assault, maybe he did more than the others, but he may not have been able to handle on his own either. Yes, he had his own plans, that Kirk was ill-prepared to deal with, but again, he shouldn't be perfect, or unbeatable. Someone who never loses or makes a mistake is boring, unrealistic and not somethign we can relate to. Of course we want our heroes to be better than us, so we have something to aspire to, but we also have to be able to relate to them somewhat, so we can see that we can go from what we are, to what they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Everything with Kirk, Spock and Spock and Urura played out in the background, only coming to the forefront for melodrama.

And I disliked the film because it was underwhelming, I liked 2009 much much better.

That's fine, and is easier for me to process and accept, rather than saying PineKirk is rubbish, since I think the movies do a fine job at showing he's clever, yet flawed, and this one, showing that he can recognize his flaws and work on improving them. He can accept he needs help from his crew. He learns the ARE his family, and not only should he protect them, but he should rely on their talents to complement his, and support his shortcomings.