[Suzu]

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Originally Posted by IXRollOutIX

We only ever saw Takatora unconscious, not dead.

Well we didn't have someone confirm wether he's dead or just unconcious, we only know that he was at least in the latter condition. That aside, as said before, Urobuchi doesn't have to go with the trope. He could, but he could also say: I'll do this differently.

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Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

#1 rule of fiction: Unless you see a body OR you see the person die on-screen, it's likely that they're not actually dead.

So sinking into the water is not on-screen? Then was I just hallucinating about that scene? Yes, that scene could be interpreted in both ways (as you said there was a rumor about someone rescueing him, but then again... rumors don't necessarily come true), but I don't see how this is less on-screen than Hase or Sid. We've never seen a dead body of Hase and Sid- we even had the camera turn away when Sid was squished, so you could also go and say: Well, but he might have escaped...!
It might be not as possible as Takatora being resuced from the water, but it's an option you could think of. If we talk about off-screen death in water I'd totally agree about that in Blade, where we neither witnessed what exactly happened to Garren, not even how he actually fell into the water, so it was no problem that he came back, but imho, Takatora's scene looked bad enough to be interpreted as an on-screen death.

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Originally Posted by Shin Henshin

But being shown sinking to the bottom of the river isn't exactly off-screen, though.

I get that this is Kamen Rider, where characters don't die unless it's hardcore and blatant, but remember that this is being written by someone who knows how to kill off characters in ways that aren't always traditional in their genre. Even something as subtle as being mortally wounded and knocked sinking into the water isn't off the table as a possible death scenario.

All of this, pretty much.

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Originally Posted by ElConvoy

Him not getting flowers just means that Kubota Yuki isnt done filming all his scenes. We know that Micchy will start having visions of his brother in front of him. We have yet to see what exactly that means but I´m pretty sure it will be Takatora being in the room with Micchy and both taliking to each other. This way Yuki would still be part of the show even when his character already died.

After Koyomi died in Wizard we didnt get pictures of the actress receiving flowers. She got them after she shot her last appearance in episode 52.

And this.

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Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Most certainly is. If the death isn't on-screen, then it's an off-screen death. And it's improbable that Takatora was dead in that short amount of time that we saw him submerged.

Just because the show didn't leave deaths ambiguous so far, it doesn't mean it always has to do so. It's actually a pretty good method to create suspense. Also, we don't even know if the prologue scene is actually the future, or the past, or a parallel universe or who knows what. Remember which groups are fighting which? At this point, why should Micchy join forces with Takatora? Or rather say, why would Takatora fight side by side with a brother that tried to kill him? And why would Kaito and Jonouchi fight Kouta? At the current point, this scene would not make a tiny bit of sense. Besides, Takatoras Sengoku Driver might be broken by now, so how is he supposed to transform into Zangetsu again? I don't think Ryoma will come around and repair it, after trying to kill his former friend a while ago.


Remember guys, we are ALL speculating here and just because there's certain tropes in Rider, it doesn't mean Urobuchi has to stick to those. But then again, he also could do so. We don't know. All we know is what the episode summaries tell us. Rumors don't count because yeah... they're rumors. Neither Oren rescuing Takatora nor Jinber Melon were ever confirmed.