[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Really now, it sounds like you're making excuses for why things are bad in this show.

Well I'm certainly in over my head with this one. I think I even said last week I wouldn't be that defensive of Onari or Makoto too...

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Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Except Onari's never shown himself to be selfish before.

But he's always had a certain level of arrogance, and constantly overestimates his own helpfulness, like picking a fight with the Knife Ganma. I need to stress I'm not trying to say Onari is some great character, just that his crappy characterization is consistent.

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Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Him being a generic sidekick character because of his guilt doesn't make him any more interesting of a character and that's precisely what the problem is.

Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

But there's still no evidence to support your argument. Nothing in the show suggests that the Ganma World wasn't totally a living Hell from him, other than the fact that we see it later and it's not so bad. Normally, I could accept this as solid evidence, but the show doesn't even acknowledge the huge discrepancy between what Makoto said and what the world is actually like, which leads me to believe that it's a case of writers having the characters say and do things and just totally forgetting about it once the plot goes in a different direction, which seems to be an overall trend for Ghost.

Wait, now I'm confused, what the f*** are we even arguing about here anymore?

Are you saying nothing in episodes 1-11 suggests the Ganma World wasn't actually hell for him? Because the point I was trying to get at (really poorly) is that Makoto's description is just his perspective. He'd describe it as hell because to him, it was. There's no discrepancy. I wasn't trying to say he was manipulating Takeru or anything. The writers didn't just make up what the Ganma world is like later on. Everything you see in that first arc is consistent with what you see later. Makoto's relationship with Alain, all of Javert's dialogue, Makoto even having a Ghost Driver; Yurusen mentions early on the reason Gramps doesn't show up half the time is because he's "busy", wonder what that could mean?

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Originally Posted by The Chaos Entity

Could you please explain what you want a pair of seven/eight-year-old children to do? They didn't even know what happened, and we don't know how Ryu explained it, either. For all we know, he could have died the next day or something.

Can I also reiterate this bit? I don't even think Makoto's problem was that they "left him there" but instead that he gets back and nobody seems to remember him and Kanon.