[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomos

I watched the pre-Kiva series in a weird order and not all in one go a long time ago and Kuuga I actually finished last in summer 2012, I did really like Kuuga a lot though. I do kind of miss the feel of Kuuga-Kabuto and Kiva tbh, today's shows just mostly aren't as dark as the 2000s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaijuUltraFan

yeah that's why I liked Amazons (show) and The First and The Next movies. There was a darker horror element to them.

Even 'W' (the show) had some surprisingly dark moments.

...then again,.. Build had some dark episodes too.

I guess a bit of darkness is just part of the Kamen Rider universe. Which is fine with me.

Definitely without doubt though.... Amazons is the darkest of them all. I don't want to post any spoilers but there's one scene that is one of the most twisted scenes I've seen in a movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomos

This might be an embarrassing confession: I haven't got round to watching Amazons yet! I keep falling behind with a lot of shows, don't ask me about Garo since 2015 because I haven't got a clue!

Yeah, if you're looking for "dark, violent, horror-inflected Kamen Rider", it's definitely going to be Amazons. There's a, I don't know, a fatalism to Amazons that makes it great if you want a dark, very serious Kamen Rider show, and maybe not so great if you want some variation of tone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

Personally speaking, I prefer Kamen Rider now.

While not as overtly dark as in the 2000s, it still has a lot of dark subject matter, just tackled better than a lot of murder and violence for seeming shock value, and that coming from someone who loved Faiz.

We have monsters that are allegories for depression and drug use, eldritch abominations from a different planet that try to consume everything, a virus that can erase you from existence, take your face and walk around with it all while you can't do anything to stop it, human experimentation, comatose people so you can more or less harvest their organs, being drowned out of the blue, suffocate in your car thanks to dirt falling attop of you.

Kamen Rider has still a lot of dark tones, they are just, in my opinion, handled better than just senseless violence and murder. I'd argue, with them pushing these themes more into the background they can do far more with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

As someone who much prefers the tone of something like OOO or Drive or Zero-One; I must admit I lament that it seems like nothing with the tone of Kuuga or Agito can be done again? It seems something allowed them to go a lot harder in the past than they do now, and it's a shame that it seems like that can't be done now.

Then again, it might also be that a lot of writers realised that there wasn't much to be done with that tone, and that a lot more can be done with newer writing styles. It's definitely not as if the ability to do some dark and serious shit has gone away as evidenced by Gaim and Build, but they're certainly a lot brighter and fun than stuff like Faiz and I feel it works out more.

Sticking to one level, "very serious sci-fi horror show", narratively, it's death. It creates a kind of suffocating self-seriousness, which will always sit uneasily next to the monster suits and form changes and Kamen Rider trappings. A full year of that type of show, I mean, shit, even Amazons only did 13 episodes in a season. I'm curious how/if Kuuga keeps it up all series.

Shows like Build excel at telling a lot of different kinds of stories: sad stories, happy stories, funny stories, horror stories, action stories, etc. That flexibility in conception gives them so many more colors to paint with, rather than the monochrome of Dark.

I'm trying to meet Kuuga on its own terms, and not judge it for what it isn't trying to do, but it's definitely not trying to do what I like in Kamen Rider shows.