[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Romance is a tricky topic, and there are a lot of pitfalls in it. Sometimes it feels like it's only included because, well, there has to be a romance, otherwise people won't like it. This can include characters falling for each other for little reason, or in too fast a time, or just because execs believe 'Well, the man and woman have to end up together' - and I'm using that phrasing purely because Queer stories are often written more with the romance in mind, and thus it makes more sense for those to be romance heavy. From another angle, though, look at fanfiction, which has garnered a reputation (lessened in recent years, mind) of just being gay shipping and nothing else, even for characters who don't have that dynamic on screen/page/film. Add to that a common plot in any long-running thing of a "Will they or won't they" romance, which can often progress and regress at the whims of scheduling and renewal, and not for emotional reasons, and people can be burnt out on badly written romances.

But that's just bad romances, right? Well, sometimes it can feel like that's the only choice of relationship on offer. Friendships exist, yes, but they're subservient to the romance. And it erases a large chunk of the prospective relationships available in a person's life in favour of one that's raised above all others in media. Romance is an important factor in people's lives, true, but media often presents it as the only thing that matters. You can save the world, sure, but did you get the girl? Kamen Rider isn't immune to this - think about the Build V-Cins, where suddenly all the main cast outside of Sento are teased with potential women partners. None of this is to say romance is inherently bad, but it often comes across as incredibly prominent in everything, to the point where a series about romance, one with debatable realness (I've not seen beyond the first 10 eps of Kiva, I have no personal stake) can be offputting.

And, just as one final comment, not everyone does feel romance. People are chronically single, unlucky in love, going through a tough time, or just don't feel that kind of attraction. That's up to them personally as to why they might not like the more romantic side of things.

EDIT - I see you've mentioned genre fiction in yours, so that means I can express a thought I wasn't sure about! Genre fiction can come as an escape from many of the trappings of what I wrote above - "Will they or won't they" is a very soap opera genre, and there's a lot more emphasis in some genre stories on the world around the characters rather than the characters themselves. Thus, some people don't like romance stories in those genres because they see 'romance' as a genre in and of itself, like a romcom, and thus it makes the genre fic less unique for being there. I don't entirely agree with that, exploring romance in fantasy and sci-fi settings obviously has its place, but some people would rather avoid the cliches of "fighting for love" entirely and watch for the more fantastical elements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

AkibaSilver already made some good points about it, but I'll add my own thoughts here:

I can't speak for everyone that feels this way obviously, but for me it comes down to a few things. I should probably just get this out of the way first, on a personal level I have no interest in romance and am probably the least thirsty person you'll ever see. So, I suppose due to my lack of personal connection and interest, sticking characters in a romantic subplot is just about the least interesting thing imaginable to me. On a personal experince level, I also haven't encountered co-workers falling for each other very often, so it isn't something that feels realistic either. I like human drama a lot in tokusatsu, you know, characters having a good old existential crisis, fighting, becoming friends or enemies, family drama, etc. Love that stuff, so if a romance is used in a way that complements the rest of the drama and narrative I can like it. I watched Timeranger recently, and actually really enjoyed the romance in that show and how it tied into the overarching theme of living in the present even if things cannot last forever, perhaps enhanced further by the bittersweet nature of it. On a note that AkibaSilver brought up, I also just get *real* tired of seeing romance in almost every piece of media. I think because romance is so widespread, tokusatsu tends to attract people who don't like it, since it is generally light on it compared to other genres, so that might account for the disproportionate amount of people who don't like it you encounter in the community. I hope this makes sense, it is a little hard to put into words.

Anyways, TLDR romance is really prolific and not for everyone, especially when it feels like it comes at the expense of other character relationships and plot beats. Also, guess who JUST realized the reason she doesn't like V-Cinemas is the frequent use of romance plots? I'm sure you'll never guess.

Thanks for being so candid, y'all. This gives me a lot of context that I didn't quite have. It's especially interesting to realize that many of the romance-averse maybe don't feel romantic inclinations at all and find these types of stories boring and unrelatable. And honestly, as a gay dude, I can relate to a lot of the reasons why you wouldn't be thrilled to see yet another (in my case, heteronormative) romance dominate the plot of something you're watching.

On top of that, I also feel annoyed when I'm subjected to bad romantic plots that lack intent and are just there by executive mandate or out of creative laziness -- though, I credit that to bad writing/producing/directing more than I do to the inherent badness of romance as a plot device, and I'd feel the same way about a badly done friendship or a toothless villain or a disappointing climax or badly done anything.

You two definitely don't fall into this category, but the group of anti-romance people that really tick me off are the ones (usually dudes) who balk at any hint of romance due to their indoctrination into a toxically masculine culture that forces them to shut off any vulnerability and automatically associate romance with "vile" femininity. I have lumped people unfairly into this category in the past, so it's nice to know that there are people with more nuanced and humane reasons for their aversion to romance.

Circling back to Jetman, I think the reason that romance plot works for me is that it is specifically not a healthy one, and I think that's by design. The love triangle in Jetman exposes as many (if not more) negative traits in the characters as it does heroic and redemptive ones. Love is responsible for characters doing as many reprehensible things as noble things. It drives people to the brink of madness more often than it leads them to happiness. Seen through that perspective, I find Jetman's emphasis on toxic romance endlessly fascinating... in particular, because all of them resolve in the least stable and healthy ways imaginable. And for this to be the first major romantic arc in Sentai -- one so clearly destructive for all parties involved -- is ballsy as fuck, and I have no idea how Inoue got away with it on a show for eight-year-olds in 1991.