[DreadBringer]

The third option I guess - when I can trace how the character came to this. It'd be what I'm fine for if there are already setups before. The damages a villain cause isn't necessarily a measure on how evil they're, it'd be more of how powerful or competent they're. Typically anti-villainous characters would be easier to believably change due to them already having some virtues before, which is already a setup for their change. I think it'd be harder (but not impossible, except for cases below) to trace a straight villain changing by themselves as they often look down on virtue, and often media don't give convincing arguments to uphold virtue.

Though generally if a character has crossed pure evil territory in their crimes (not merely them causing huge damage, btw), it should be at best them being forced for mutual benefit if they want a teamup between them and the heroes, which'd be not actually redeemed, what I'm sick of is people treating benefitting, good outcomes, or little decency/amiable of their as being good, which is the usual move of justifying villains by over-rewarding them, and overlooking the fact that evil vs evil is a thing.

If they want to "stop" these kind of villain's threats, without killing them, it should not be them realizing and changing themselves IMO, but merely being "tamed" and thus retired, or at the very least, due to outside influence like no past memories (e.g. Sougo remaking Time Jacker's life from scratch). Inversely, it'd not be a redemption if a character is only evil due to outside influence, like being brainwashed, such as berserk forms, they never did anything wrong even if they'd feel regret for it.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I like a redemption arc as long as it doesn't break my suspension of disbelief. If I can't see enough redeeming qualities to make a bad guy turn good, but the plot does it anyway, then it doesn't work for me. Even if it's only something in one episode that has strong execution, then I can sympathize.

This'd be probably a wild assumption about you, but I sometimes can have thought that you'd want for all villains, of any kind, to get changed, because it can seem to me that in KR you prioritize paragons (e.g. most main Riders) changing and developing people around them for the better, and if you didn't get that, you'd blame the "supposed" paragon instead, because everyone is capable of change without exceptions. At least coming from you disagreeing with Ryuki's ending of it negating the changes happened to the Riders even if it'd revert the countless Rider War victims, but media often depicting mercy for a room of change as letting villains go, also gives a vibe of prioritizing change over the safety of people - it's worth the cost of to make them change no matter how long it is... I'd want to know more regarding redemptions you won't agree with, but other than those done in shows you dislike (Gaim, Revice) - I thought by this before you may not rank Geats above Zero-One with you listing 2 of latter's examples below.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Examples of redemption arcs I like:

• Amatsu Gai
  
  Examples of redemption arcs I dislike:
• Kureshima Mitsuzane (worst, IMO)

The reason you'd disagree with Micchy's redemption is because of the sheer crimes he committed? (I do think that he can fit pure evil too, but I'd be actually fine if they leave them being subdued at the end of ep. 46, rather than resolution at ep. 47) Or because there'd be other reason? (I'd hope you can be objective on this, regardless of it being Gaim) Because Gai's crimes rival Micchy's in scale with practically zero positive traits (like Ryoma) to 'balance'. Gai has corporate sabotage, conspiracy, genocide, vandalism, treason, abuse, incrimination, obstruction of justice, brainwashing, torture, terrorism, and the 1843 complaints involving age spoofing, faking reasons of absence, illegal auction bidding, illicit sales, misappropriation of company finances for personal benefit, plagiarizing technology, ossession of a fake bank account, sexual/moral harassment, tax evasion, etc.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

• Isuzu Daichi

I wonder how'd you refer (other than Evolt fighting Killbus) to Kuroto (True Ending or Another Ending's Zombie Survival) or Masamune's (pleading for Kiriya to stop Kuroto) last seen actions. There are enough people who point out Kuroto wasn't redeemed and Daichi should be given similar treatment (he's the type to only do good for benefit by then too). The only change would be him treating the Jamatos better, and done for plot irony in Riders being now the threats and Jamatos being defenders - perhaps the equivalent can be Kuroto treating Poppy better and shielded her from an attack.

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Originally Posted by Annuga

He never really faces any consequences for this nor does it feel like he's truly regretful of all of his heinous acts but rather realized "Oh shit Ark would kill me too, better fight the thing I specifically made to try and wipe out humanity before it wipes out humanity".

The regretful part is shown in him apologizing to others with a bow.... "Ark would kill me too" sounds like characters like Kuroto which actually never repented - and what would make sense more and likely less hated tbh.

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Originally Posted by Annuga

I mean. Michinaga's goal was to have the power to crush any Kamen Rider, forcing them out of the DGP to spare them the pain, death and suffering it causes with a 'the end justifies the means' attitude, realizing that Geats isn't just some glamorous fop but rather someone who after getting closure wanted to make a world where the DGP had no reason to exist meant that he could achieve his endgoal without having to sacrifice and trample over others, showing he doesn't like the things he did per se but rather felt they were truly needed. I don't get how you can read that as "Welp, I'm not able to do what I wanted, time to be friendly with a guy I have a venomous hate boner for just because he's stronger than me despite this happening constantly"

Even if he'd prefer force Riders out, he'd not bat an eye if Riders died in his pursuit of goals (like Shirowe), including if he directly throws them under the bus (Keiwa, Ace, Niramu), if it can get closer to his plans. Before he'd also have no qualms murdering Neon because she was infected (he'd also wish her dead after she got cured) which carries over in how he approaches the phase 2 Jamatos. Though Ace's real circumstances behind his wishes manages to have him gradually let go of his worldview, it's not that what Michinaga did was what's necessary and needed, but it was him being blinded by his cynicism, to be so caught up in his negative bias, always assuming the worst in others and doing what "needs" to be done. Cynicism isn't the sensible approach people make it out to be (often being lauded over idealism), it's a dogmatic and narrow-minded view with unearned sense of superiority that leads to laziness, negligence, cruelty and callousness, even if you mean well.

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Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

I think Parado's redemption would've worked a lot better if he didn't literally kill several Ride Players.
It made it such an uneasy pill to swallow that everyone accepted him so willingly even after he did that, since there was no coming back for them.

Can't be redeemed if they have never done wrong/bad things before. Reversible outcomes or not doesn't make something not bad (e.g. being stopped at attempted murder won't make them innocent). If they've been bad before by their own volition, they'd be redeemed if they realize they're wrong and want to change for good.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

However, I also think Gai received more punishment than people acknowledge. He's genuinely trying hard to atone for the mess he and ZAIA made, but other than Thouzer and Rin, nobody gives him a chance to prove he's changed and they continue to ostracize him for his past actions.

It's maybe because he's in better place than the actual main cast, getting his Driver back, has multiple Thousers, and being in overall steady place, by comparison to the main protagonists (or even other former villains) - MetsubouJinrai.net are all killed, Fuwa is possibly dead, Yua can't henshin and likely loses Fuwa, and Aruto likely has his efforts and visions crushed by Lyon's victory.