[Sh Ranger]

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Originally Posted by Frontier

I'm still convinced at this point that Inoue just sublets at Toei studios.

He's just a passing through Kamen Rider. Remember that!

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Originally Posted by LevisNox

your tossing words into my month I have said a number of times kamen rider was gauge more to preten to teen not just teens and I have said only the newer seasons have been more to kids

A number of times, like plural? I only count once that you mention preteens before. If you can cite a second post, then please do. Otherwise, this feels like a repeat of the Bun Violet case where you basically forget what you said and deny that you made a mistake.

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Originally Posted by LevisNox

Also Live was edgy he had a whole edgy arc about IM MOST WORK FOR THE POWERFUL DEMON TO SAVE THE WORLD

That shit was edgy

I'm sticking with "stupid" to describe that arc. If Daiji had known that Gif was lying and continued to serve him anyway, then that would be edgy. In the end, he was just a gullible idiot, like so many people in this show.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Heroine simply only means the female term for hero. If you're a heroic individual and a female, then you're a heroine. If you're a heroic individual and transform into a Rider, then you fit both not that you can only be one or the other (and typically heroic individual is what it takes to be a Rider). Houtaro isn't a heroine, because he's a male, thus he's a hero. Emotional support or mediating conflicts and misunderstandings are just another way to save the day alongside defeating bad guys, what matters is you do good not that you have to do things in certain way to be a hero/heroine (gender based).

I'm getting sick of how in my country, English isn't the first language, heroine term is used for major female characters (particularly what they find hot) like Ora, early Aguilera, or occasionally Berobitch. If one'd deny that female Riders are heroines because of how that role is usually done in the past, it's more about the problem with KR turning females into one or back in the past, them only being one-offs or dying.

Yeah sure, I know that. I think the fault lies with Toei then, since the staff use "heroine" as a term for a specific archetype instead of the literal meaning of the word. Rinne is a heroine, but she's not the heroine, if that makes sense. I mean, it doesn't, but that's Toei's internal logic anyway. Like you said, the infamous Female Rider Curse is a whole thing and I think the franchise is still kind of recovering from that, as some people have unfair expectations of female characters becoming Riders, expecting them to suck and/or get killed. To the extreme that even if a female character is a bad character, they don't mind as long as she can fight and impose on others, which is such a toxic way of thinking.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Yes tbh. Those who claim heroine should be supportive non-fighters are just the same ones as those who claim primary Rider should be the straight up heroic one and secondary Rider should be the edgy one, etc, because usually their roles are like that. Roles mean nothing to characterization, even if many are typically made that way in that role. For non-KR tropes, there are those who claim that being protagonist means they should be likable, always right, always hold the moral high ground, because of thinking that the term protagonist equates hero, when it's not, protagonist only means main character, even if many protagonists are made heroic.

Like those who would deny Ace and Tendo being protagonists, claiming that they're not the usual archetype. Yeah, the protagonist is the main focus of the story and sometimes they're not easy to relate to, but it's still about them. Even when we hate the protagonist, their role stays the same. Likewise for heroines, at least by the literal meaning, as long as they meet the criteria of being female and heroic/antiheroic, the smaller details are irrelevant to that role. Ultimately, the plot should move based on characters' actions, not the other way around, while the role of protagonist and antagonist can change depending on who's the narrative focus.