[Zolda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

But you literally claimed that the purpose of a heroine is to provide emotional support to the protagonist. If the protagonist already has that, then there's no purpose for a heroine. Why does KR specifically need a heroine to do what can be done by others? There are many works that don't have heroines. Pixar's Up didn't have a heroine. Activision's Call of Duty Black Ops didn't have a heroine. Kamen Rider Gotchard doesn't have a heroine. I don't see the problem here.

If you claimed that Houtarou already has emotional and moral support simply because you thought that he has many friends, then I'm afraid your reasoning is faulty. How often it's shown that Houtarou has a high degree of interaction with his friends in school? How often it's shown that his friends in school provide emotional and moral support to him? How often it's shown that his school is his main playground (and the main setting of the story)? Yep, very very very rarely. Kajiki is the only close friend he has. Even Kajiki is often absent from the story. If I'm often absent from the story, then it means that I'm not an important character to the protagonist. If Kajiki is often absent from the story, then it means that his contribution to Houtarou's growth is not that important. If Kajiki is not that important to him, then how am I supposed to consider the importance of his other friends from school, who are almost never shown on screen?

I don't even know the names of the other students from Houtarou's school, other than Rinne, Kajiki, Seina (who only appeared as the plot required in episodes 30-31), and Mikuriya (the drama club president, also part of the plot in episodes 30-31), and that's it. The other students shown on screen usually function as background fillers that I can't even consider to be characters since Houtarou has never interacted with them. Those 4(!) people are the only students in his school who are shown on screen he has been interacting with, and 2 of them (Seina and Mikuriya) only appeared as plot requirement, and 1 of them (Kajiki) is an often absent comic relief, and that leaves us with only 1 person. Who's that person? Yep, you guessed it: Rinne. Surprise, surprise! So, my point is: Don't tell me that Houtarou has many friends. Instead, show me. Like I've often said: Show, don't tell. If the pictures on screen are often showing me Houtarou's interaction with 1 particular character, then how can I conclude that Houtarou has many friends? How can I not conclude that that 1 particular character is supposed to be special to Houtarou, but failed to fulfill her duty? Like I've said several times, Gotchard's story is so hollow, vapid, and lethargic. This is one of the several hallmarks.

Gotchard is different from Fourze where it was always shown that Gentarou was actively befriending and interacting with virtually everyone in the AGHS. Gentarou's interactions with the other students (and teachers!) in the AGHS were the main focus of the show. Gotchard's main focus is Houtarou's activities as a member of the AA, so it's only natural that his main emotional/moral supports should come from inside the AA, not from outside the AA. You missed an important point I made:
Friends =/= Emotional/moral supports.
Emotional/moral supports usually come from a close circle of family members/friends, not all family members/friends. Like I said in my last post:
"If Houtarou has 100 friends, then Gentarou Kisaragi has probably had 100.000 by now. Does it mean that Gentarou doesn't need his circle of close friends in the KRC? Of course he still needs them. No matter how cheerful, outgoing, extroverted a guy is, he'll still need a circle of close friends and maybe also a girlfriend or spouse."

Also, why the heck did you bring up Pixar's Up and Activision's Call of Duty Black Ops and liken them to KR Gotchard? They're totally different genres. We're talking about KR Gotchard, a story in the superhero/toku genre, which very often features heroines, especially in the KR franchise where the inclusion of a heroine is a staple trope. I'm afraid that your reasoning here is also faulty. If I'm using the same faulty reasoning, then:
- The Thing (1982) had no heroine. Why should KR Gotchard?
- The Sixth Sense (1999) had no heroine. Why should KR Gotchard?
- American Psycho (2000) had no heroine. Why should KR Gotchard?
- The Big Lebowski (1998) had no heroine. Why should KR Gotchard?
- Clerks (1994) had no heroine. Why should KR Gotchard?
- The Big Short (2015) had no heroine. Why should KR Gotchard?
- Spongebob Squarepants has never had a heroine. Why should KR Gotchard?
See how absurd that faulty reasoning is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Is Gotchard inspiring kids to grow up healthy? Is Gotchard making profit for Toei and Bandai? Of course! What is Gotchard not doing, that would make you deem it a failure? For comparison, Gobusters was a failure despite being an awesome show, while Kyoryuger sucked despite becoming a big success. Our subjective opinions on the quality of a show doesn't determine whether it's a failure or a success, but rather the objective results. Even the universally loathed Work Competition arc of Zero One was called a success, due to having an increase in ratings. I may feel sick to think about that reality, but I can't deny the importance of statistics.

I had also mentioned the fact that Gotchard toys have been selling well. But toy sales is just a short-term profit. The long-term profit is the cultural relevance many many years from today, and I'm afraid Gotchard will be culturally irrelevant in the long run. I'm afraid Gotchard won't stand the test of time. Focusing solely on toy sales while neglecting the quality of the story is a very shortsighted paradigm. But hey, it's Toei/Bandai's decision. At least I've warned them. Like I've said: Let time be the judge and reveal reality. I'm already prepared for both possibilities.

And you're still saying that criticisms are subjective? Well, once again, let time be the judge and reveal reality. Those who are unwilling to receive constructive criticisms will never learn from their mistakes, and thus will be ultimately crushed by the harsh truth of reality. It's an undeniable fact of life. Like I said in my previous post:
"Some criticisms are subjective, while some are objective. If I say that all forms of criticism are merely subjective babbles without validity, objectivity, and constructive values, then it means that I'm entering a very dangerous territory where I'm committing to myself to never learn from my mistakes and the harsh truth of reality."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

What did Mai actually accomplish as the Space Goddess, other than hosting a fashion contest in the Hyper Battle?

You still asked what Mai accomplished? She accomplished several crucial things as the leader of Team Gaim and as the heroine of the story.

You forgot about this scene?
(Gaim 18 @ 16.13)

(Gaim 18 @ 18.50)

The all-team dance event was mainly Mai's idea to rally the city's Beat Riders and clear their names. She was the one who maintained the unity and optimism among the Beat Riders, even while their names were being smeared by Yggdrasill. If she ran away from her responsibilities, then the whole Team Gaim would've been demoralized, and the other Beat Rider teams would've been demoralized as well, and with no one willing to stand up to clear their names, their reputation would've been tarnished forever. This scene is the definitive proof that Mai was an effective leader who was able to maintain unity and optimism among the people she was leading.

You forgot about this scene?
(Gaim 46 @ 15.34)

That's the Zawame city 3 months after the Helheim invasion. People returned to Zawame because they were inspired by the strength of the Beat Riders who were the symbol of the city's youths. If Mai as a leader of Team Gaim had run away, then there would be no one to unite and provide emotional/moral support to Team Gaim and the Beat Riders, thus no one would inspire the youths (and the general population) to return to and rebuild Zawame, the city that was most ruined by the Helheim invasion. Zawame would've been a rootless city, a desolate ground zero of a natural freak accident that people have abandoned since no one was left standing there. Youths are the energy of a city. No youth = no culture = no life. Mai as a leader was an example of a strong leader who provided emotional/moral support to Team Gaim, the Beat Riders, the youths, and the Zawame city itself. The rebuilt Zawame city was mainly her legacy. Like I said in my previous post, that's gentle strength.

You forgot about this scene?
(Gaim 41 @ 06.57)

Like I said in my previous post, this scene is where Mai was trusted with the responsibility and burden as the bearer of the Forbidden Fruit by Roshuo because her philosophy of gentle strength and believing in her friends (even in Mitchy who had betrayed her) managed to impress him. Roshuo wouldn't have trusted the Forbidden Fruit to a cowardly leader who abandoned her people in the midst of a crisis. Once again, this is the definitive proof of her gentle strength.

You forgot about this scene?
(Gaim 26 @ 03.18)

This scene is where Mai was comforting Kouta after hearing Kouta's confession regarding the truth about him unknowingly killing Yuuya who turned into an Inves after eating a Helheim fruit in episode 1. That scene is the definitive proof of Mai as the heroine who provided the most amount of emotional and moral support to the protagonist, and as shown in several other scenes above, also provided emotional and moral support to other characters.

Mai was basically a typical Heisei heroine, only turned up to 11. Her role, involvement, and importance were more much integral and crucial to the story compared to other heroines, even to this day. Her crucial role was even already shown on screen since episode 1 as the Woman of the Beginning who travelled to the past in an attempt to change it. Mai is the most important heroine in this franchise so far, because she was essentially the other half of the hero (Kazuraba Kouta/KR Gaim/the Man of the Beginning).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Those internal rules were only made up by that Sagara creep, who was foolish enough to think he could order around a god. Kouta literally refused to do what he wanted, like how Kenzaki exploited a loophole in the rules to stall the end of the world. Even an unbreakable rule can still be bent, much to the frustration of the one who made the rule. To use your marriage example, Mr. Super Lawyer, you should know that equality doesn't mean equal benefits. That's why prenups exist to protect individual assets, but since Gaim's metaphor ignores that part, Space God gets all the best assets, while Space Goddess gets a useless time travel ability and doesn't even get to decide her partner. Mai got ripped off.

A god? Since when the Man/Woman of the Beginning were gods/Gods?

You forgot about this scene?
(Gaim 20 @ 07.14)

The Man of the Beginning was not a God, but an evolved human granted with the absolute ability to control Helheim's viral nature and create new creatures/species, and also the ability to perform limited degree of medical miracle such as healing a comatose person (Takatora). The Man of the Beginning couldn't even revive dead people, since if he could then Roshuo would've revived his queen and rebuilt his society/civilization. The Man of the Beginning couldn't even can't change the past and reverse the damage caused by the Helheim invasion and the war for the Forbidden Fruit, since if he could then Roshuo would've reverted his world to where it was before the Helheim invasion. The Man and Woman of the Beginning weren't even immortal since it was shown that Roshuo and his wife could be killed. If the Man of the Beginning could do Godly things then Roshuo wouldn't have had any problems whatsoever and the story in Gaim wouldn't even have begun since the Helheim invasion wouldn't have spread to Kouta's world. If the Man of the Beginning could do Godly things then the story would've ended at Roshuo's world and the series KR Gaim would've never existed. How could you call the Man of the Beginning a God when he was still a mortal, killable person, like shown when Roshuo was murdered by Redyue? Roshuo's wife was also killed in the power struggle for the Forbidden Fruit. How could you call the Man of the Beginning a God when he couldn't even do Godly things? Just because a character can do several things humans can't do doesn't mean that he's a God. Just because a story features many religious/mythological metaphors doesn't mean that the protagonist is a God. The Man/Woman of the Beginning were gods in the same sense as Loki or Thor in MCU were gods. They were essentially super duper hyper humans, but still nothing compared to a God.

The Woman of the Beginning couldn't change the past not because the time travel ability was useless, but because the past had already happened. Her time travel ability was actually useful since she was able to visit several parallel worlds such as the one in episode 45 @ 06:06 where Kaito was the victor, not Kouta. The Woman of the Beginning being unable to control the time and change the past was another proof that the Woman (and Man) of the Beginning weren't Gods. I've already elaborated on this in the previous paragraph.

And when was it said, shown, or implied that the Woman of the Beginning only had a time travel ability? You forgot about these scenes?
(Gaim 05 @ 03.24)

(Gaim 44 @ 06.24)

Those scenes show that the Woman of the Beginning also had telepathic communication and wound-healing abilities similar to the ones possessed by the Man of the Beginning.

You forgot about this scene?
(Gaim 01 @ 00.36)

That scene shows Helheim plants growing around the Woman of the Beginning, which implied that she had a similar ability to control Helheim plants as Roshuo/the Man of the Beginning did.

Those scenes are the definitive proofs that the Woman of the Beginning had similar abilities, and thus was equal to the Man of the Beginning.

Also, who said that Sagara was the creator of the rules? When was it said, shown, or implied that Sagara was the creator of Helheim? Sagara was not the creator of Helheim, but the representative/avatar of Helheim. Helheim was a freak of the nature created by the laws and forces of the nature itself. Helheim was essentially an existential threat created by nature.

And when was it said, shown, or implied that Sagara considered himself to be above the Man/Woman of the Beginning? Sagara did have a preference of seeing the power of the Forbidden Fruit be used for the creation of the new world via the destruction of the old one, but when Kouta and Mai instead decided to create the new world in an empty planet in a galaxy far far away in episode 46 @ 12:06, Sagara couldn't do anything to stop them. He could only respect their decision and follow them to the new planet.

If Sagara was the creator of Helheim and its rules, then he'd also have had the absolute authority to change them, or decide how the Man/Woman of the Beginning should act, or decide how the power of the Forbidden Fruit was used. Heck, if he was the creator of Helheim and its rules, then why hadn't he used the power of the Forbidden Fruit for himself? An example of Sagara's limited ability was shown in episode 31 @ 07:22 when he needed to plead to Roshuo and make him consider to transfer a portion of the power of the Forbidden Fruit to the new potential candidates of the Man/Woman of the Beginning. Sagara himself still needed to personally ask Roshuo because he wasn't even 100% sure whether Roshuo was actually the previous victor of the Forbidden Fruit.

Those scenes proved that Sagara was not the creator of the rules of the Helheim nor he was ever consider himself to be above the Man/Woman of the Beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I'll admit that Mai is likely the best moral example in the show and generally meets the heroine criteria you've defined, but what good is that when she's ineffective? A major problem with Gaim is that it lacks synergy between the physical strength and gentle strength, which is necessary to prevent the nihilistic and cynical setting from becoming oppressive. Ryuki had a strong dynamic between the main 3. Yui would provide emotional support and wisdom to Shinji, whose philosophy would eventually inspire Ren, who would carry Yui's wishes to stop the Rider War once and for all. This is an important factor that Gaim was lacking.

How could you say that Mai was ineffective when she was able to prove herself as a strong leader who was able to rally and unite the Beat Rider teams in the city? How could you say that Gaim lacked synergy between the physical strength and gentle strength when she proved to be the one who consistently provided the most amount of emotional/moral support to Kouta? I've shown all the proofs above. Those proofs aren't my conjectures, but explicit, obvious facts shown on screen. How could you miss those obvious facts? All the facts I've mentioned above demonstrate that Mai was an effective heroine that best captured the philosophy of gentle strength in this franchise so far. All the facts I've mentioned above demonstrate that KR Gaim was the best example of the synergy between the physical strength and gentle strength.

If KR franchise is planning to create a hybrid heroine/Rider character, then they should study several characters that have managed to balance both aspects well, for example:
- Yuna from Final Fantasy X (2001),
- Tifa in Final Fantasy VII (1997) and the Remake (2020) and Rebirth (2024) versions,
- Selina Kyle/Catwoman in The Dark Knight Rises (2012), and
- Trinity in The Matrix trilogy (1999-2003).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Which means that regardless of whether Kouta or Kaito won the position of Space God, that person would also become the Space Goddess' partner. The problem here is that there are two Adams/yins but only one Eve/yang.

Whaaattt??? When were there two Adams? When were there two Men of the Beginning? When Gaim's story ended, there was only one victor. There was only one Man of the Beginning, and his name is Kazuraba Kouta/KR Gaim. Kaito Kumon/KR Baron died as Lord Baron, an evolved human but still below the level of the Man/Woman of the Beginning.

You forgot about this scene?
(Gaim 46 @ 10.43)

How many white-haired dudes are there in that scene? Yep, only one, and his name is Kazuraba Kouta/KR Gaim. This scene is obviously a metaphor for marriage. Sagara acted as the priest who gave his blessing to Kouta and Mai as the groom and the bride. Sagara even cited a passage from the Bible from Genesis 1: 28, which is also always cited at weddings in real life as a blessing for a husband and wife to start a family and have children.

I'm not sure how your flow of reasoning was but your statement is proven to be totally faulty because the fact of the existence of one Man of the Beginning and one Woman of the Beginning was explicitly shown on screen. Please tell me if the KR Gaim series I've been watching (and rewatching) all this time is the right version, because it could mean that the KR Gaim that I've been watching is the wrong version which implies that I've been living in an imaginary, alternate world completely detached from reality.

Before I criticize something, first I must make sure whether I'm sticking to facts and basing my arguments on logic, rationality, and common sense. Making a criticism without basing my arguments on facts, logic, rationality, and common sense will only make me look ridiculous.

Ah, I've just remembered that this is Gochard's thread, so this should be my last post talking about Gaim here, haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I was referring more to gatekeeping internally. Sure, none of us can actually influence Toei's designations, but this practice of defining restrictive criteria for what a type of character can and cannot be allowed to do is close enough that people often call it gatekeeping.

Gatekeeping internally? What the heck is internal gatekeeping? Gatekeeping is gatekeeping, and I already showed you the textbook definition of gatekeeping from several sources in my last post here. Let me quote and reiterate it here:
"The definition of gatekeeping from several sources:
- "to control access to something, or determine the legitimacy of people?s claims to a particular status, by unilaterally imposing criteria for acceptance"
Source:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gatekeep
- "the activity of trying to control who gets particular resources, power, or opportunities, and who does not"
Source:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...sh/gatekeeping
- "the practice of controlling access to information, advanced levels of study, elite sections of society, etc"
Source:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...sh/gatekeeping"

If what you meant by internal gatekeeping is controlling the direction of discussion in this forum, then I'm afraid that you're still wrong. I'm just a member in this forum, not a moderator. My post count is even much lower than yours. How could you come to the conclusion that I, a lowly member, have the power to control the direction of discussion in this forum?

I'm not sure who the people you were referring to when you said that people often call what I've been doing "gatekeeping". If the people you were referring to are social media users and or internet forum members, then I have a bad news for you: Their use of the word "gatekeeping" is patently wrong, be it meaning-wise or context-wise, as I've shown above. Those people often casually throw around big words without bother looking up in the dictionary what those words actually mean. I've also seen commentators like those in the English-speaking fandom communities, and they almost always (if not always) conflate gatekeeping and criticism in order to guilt trip you and deflect actual, valid, objective, constructive criticisms. In other words, their incorrect use of the word "gatekeeping" is both a weapon to discredit actual, valid, objective, constructive criticisms, and a shield to protect their anti-critical nature.

It's social media, very often the worst part of the internet. In this year of 2024, almost 99% of hoaxes, misinformation, disinformation, and other types of false information usually come from or is spread via social media. Every time I encounter a piece of new information in social media, I turn up my skeptic-sense to maximum sensitivity, haha.