[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Omnikaiser

Suga reminds me of a fusion of Zero-One Jin (appearance) and Revice George.

But while Jin was a childlike vilain at first and George a fun-to-watch Kamen Rider nerd/mad scientist, Suga really looks cold to me and makes me not like him at all.
Which is kinda a good thing because I don't want him to be redeemed like most vilain/unlikeable characters.

Please don't give him a tragic backstory to explain why he looks shady and make him be that curious guy who goes to far and ends badly, like, I don't know, Ghost Saionji ?

They did have characters like Ryoma and Banno for mad scientists, and honestly they're blatantly evil from the get go in their first appearance unlike Suga, who's only sus as for now.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Can we be sure about Shioya's death though? After all, we didn't actually see Granute Otake or Nyelve kill him, so it's possible that the broken Hitopress is a fake. We saw Otake's method of using magic tricks to raise his victims' spice value while concealing himself, which doesn't match how he attacked Shioya with his Gavv exposed. I believe there's something else going on here and Nyelve is probably the mastermind. A hostage is worth more alive than dead, like how Masamune revived Saki as leverage to manipulate Hiiro, so maybe Nyelve could "revive" Shioya later by revealing that he never actually died.

Yeah, I forgot to bring this up about how Soji's attack doesn't match the usual operation of Stomach Inc, to prioritize happy humans to improve the flavor of Dark Treats. Though Otake's method is to hide the Stomach's operation too, as humans would just think it's a magic act. Though this also happened before, to Michiru, who was clearly miserable, and the Stomachs compressed and murdered her due to her being a human. Nyelv can still be a mastermind with Soji being killed, likely to see and learn the human Kamen Rider project or other evolution, and some think Suga may be involved in this too. Guess gotta wait to know more about this case.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Saionji did have a tragic backstory though, well, kind of. He was a fan of Da Vinci and believed he should've been included in the 15 Heroic Eyecons, but Ryu believed that heroism was stronger in people who had endured through hard work rather than relying on natural talent. I think Ryu's criteria made sense and embodied the "letting life burn bright" philosophy more, but if you look from Saionji's perspective, it must be painful for your idol's worth to be denied like that, especially by a close friend.

Maybe they meant they don't want Suga to be like Saionji including about Saionji being given a tragic backstory.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

That being said, considering everything about the sort of overall story Gavv has been telling so far, I'm not sure in retrospect what part of this I shouldn't have seen coming? Kamen Rider Valen's debut is very much in line with what Gavv has done with Gavv himself. He has an origin story rooted so deeply in classic Rider tropes it almost feels like a retro throwback -- a man with a surgically altered body who shoulders great solitude while fighting an evil organization connected to those origins. It's harder to get more true to the original than that.

Took a long time to do this, after Ryuki introduced henshin items that can be carried around with pocket, which'd be mostly used in most series later. What'd you think about that tarnishing of KR franchise? Even also about non-bug animal motif.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I loved how the broad strokes are so close, and yet the emphasis of everything is completely different. Chiefly, Hanto doesn't seem to be in this for quite the right reasons. Shouma first became Gavv solely because he wanted to keep other people from losing what he did, and only later realized what he himself stood to gain by fighting. So of course, Valen is the opposite, with Hanto single-mindedly focused on avenging a personal loss before anything else. Gavv represents Shouma finally being able to liberate himself from the cage he spent his life in, but it's made readily apparent that Valen may well turn out to be a cage that Hanto has shortsightedly stepped into, manipulated by people using his sorrow to their gain.

While there's nothing wrong in them repeating a common trope, dunno if this can become tiring that Hanto would just be like most other secondaries being revenge-driven and wants to destroy enemies completely type, considering that previously Hanto was seemingly presented as a laid-back secondary unlike most (though Reiwa actually often did this, albeit some who got a heel turn in later story), and he had suffered tragic loss too before, twice in his mother and grandmother.

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Originally Posted by gashatfreak

I find it incredibly hilarious that instead of teaming up with Gavv like I originally thought, it would seem that Valen's powers will come from Suga literally stealing the Gochizo in broad daylight and booking it.

That does give rise to the possibility of future villains stealing Gochizos for themselves and making their own Kamen Riders though.

Though I'd think perhaps Suga would be able to perhaps replicate it by producing Gochizo-like something on his own, so no need to be reliant on Gavv, he's a toku scientist, after all. And I wonder why the villains want to make Kamen Riders with Gochizos, if seemingly half-Granutes are inferior and more of a defect than full Granutes, but events may change later.