[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 19 - ?RED MEDAL, A DETECTIVE, AND BETRAYAL?

The Yummy of this one is an escaped prisoner who wants revenge on the guy who sold him out, plus the detective who put him away, plus maybe their family members, plus a guy he stole clothes from, plus a fire plug. It?s not exactly a relatable moral that kids can grow from. (I mean, god, I hope!) Eiji and Ankh are mostly just protecting themselves and Hina here, not trying to understand the motivations of a crazed attacker. We are not learning anything in this one.

Though Ankh wouldn't care at all about humanity, despite benefitting Eiji, perhaps people'd prefer if one'd just straight up eliminate prisoners, particularly because of how Yasu ended up here, rather than trying to save them, which Eiji does think of because of Toichi being a Kazari Yummy, as saving them would just endanger the public. Maybe there can be more complaints about this (or perhaps even other unlikable Yummy hosts) if Toichi is a major villain, rather than an MOTW story aspect, where it seems people don't bring up much about MOTW stories of KR serieses.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But we are being entertained, and that?s the easier lift for a Pulp-heavy story. This one?s got its mind set on reintegrating Kazari into the plot after the last few stories, and he?s working every angle he can in order to get the Cores of his that Ankh?s been helpfully carrying around in a Core Medal case. (It?s seriously just asking to get swiped!) A Kazari-instigated problem is usually a more Pulp-heavy story, with more angles on it than an Uva dilemma (straight-ahead, really not too difficult) or a Mezool plan (desperately trying to avoid detection). Kazari schemes in a way that the other Greeed just plot, and his stories tend to have the greater number of moving parts and goals.

Even if it's just Kazari and some Yummies, the stakes feel bigger than the one in ep. 15 about the chase scene and multiple Greeeds being after OOO and Goto, though OOO hasn't used any combos yet, where ep. 15 had him using 2 at once. Dr. Maki's contribution probably should be brought up too, as someone who worked with Kazari, and the actual main antagonist of OOO. Dr. Maki claims Birth's may be stronger than OOO, but here, Kazari seems to view Birth as weaker than OOO as Birth relies on Cell Medals unlike OOO with Core Medals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Like, hey, Yasu is working for Kazari! Kazari went out and employed a duplicitous henchman to take advantage of Eiji?s protectiveness! I like a story where it feels like the villains have been watching the same show I have, and they?ve learned the weak points for the hero emotionally as well as physically. Kazari gets how the Eiji/Ankh team works, so he?s able to plant a weasel in their midst to get what he needs. It?s smart! He?s a smart cat!

Ofc, this'd have the fanbase dismiss the goody two shoes' virtue as naivety. Naivety is something commonly implemented in the goody two shoes type of characters like most of the main Riders, to the point that people'd think being kind automatically makes you naive. Otherwise, Yasu being actually still a scumbag may send a harsh yet true implication that, once a criminal, always a criminal, they should be just automatically viewed as a lost cause, they're just inherently evil like monsters and can't ever change, so continue the outcast treatment of them even after they served their sentence. While it can be true on criminals that has sentences, like Toichi still holding a grudge to a cop for locking him up, regular civilians may be also as evil, when given an opportunity (e.g. power), just that they haven't got caught yet.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

If Keiwa wasn't tempted by desires, then Giroli wouldn't have even bothered inviting him to the DGP. World peace and reviving the dead aren't "little things to change the world for the better", those are very big things! Much too big for one man to do alone, which is why Keiwa feels like he cannot forsake the DGP, using the delusion of protecting people and helping rivals to make himself feel better and feed his inner cynicism that they owe him for his heroic deeds. Somebody without desire like Eiji certainly wouldn't have joined DGP or fought for them in Desire Royale. Neither would Shinji, who wants a complete stop to the fighting.

Well, the little things obviously don't refer to Keiwa's wishes, but rather about how in the fanbase's eyes, in the DGP Keiwa prioritizes helping/protecting people and aiding other players, even if he'd lose his chance to win or sacrifice himself, in contrast to other players fighting each other and focus on winning (anything good they do aren't genuine). So, by this, in fanbase's eyes, Keiwa's wishes aren't a priority to him (until the loss of his family where one naturally gets a downward spiral), just a bonus if he somehow wins, but Keiwa joins the DGP for the same reason as Shinji joining the Rider War, to protect people and other Riders. Even if Shinji wants a complete stop to the fighting, he wouldn't be able to do it as a completely normal human eh, that'd be why he chose to join the Rider War too (and in Advent Calendar, Shinji had a wish to revive all Rider War victims). Eiji/Shinji obviously wouldn't fight for DR, which is proably the true reason why Keiwa hating Mitsume is seen as weird. KR fanbase also tend to vilify desire (and praise those who'd use their wishes for other people's sake), like what you said for OOO here.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Date is kind of like what I imagine Ankh's role would be if Ankh actually cared about other people's problems. In a show that often vilifies desire, it's a good moral that it's okay to have desires as long as you don't end up hurting others to obtain them. Date is a selfish yet noble man, so he's qualified to deliver that in a way that Eiji isn't and motivated to deliver in a way that Ankh isn't.

OOO is a rather more lighthearted show, so perhaps Ankh can be just viewed as a tsundere regarding his claims about not caring about people's problems (which you also do for some depraved characters), as people'd see any lighthearted shows as all black and white, lumping all the good guys as white together, there can't be any moral ambiguity for lighthearted shows. Though yeah, bad guys on good guys side like Ankh or Black Woz isn't being much of an obstacle to the noble main Riders and that they never really cause any damage despite them aiming for something sinister (due to main Riders being more often the ones that take action), they'd be viewed as completely fine, another straight-up good guys just for being a help for the main Rider (protagonist centered morality...).