[Sh Ranger]

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

By this, I don't know how to differentiate between the complaint actually still being able to stand up to said debate or challenge, or if one is just being a contrarian, too stubborn to accept loss, too biased to be objective, just wanting to win the debate, grasping on straws to fight the losing battles with those defenses. Obviously, the latter means anything coming from that person's mouth is just invalid, and often the solution others give is just to never engage in debates or just leave things be, practicing the art of not giving a fuck.

I've already disengaged with a certain user in weekly Rider threads due to not wanting to tolerate the latter, but I would still encourage debates with honest users who are willing to take opponents seriously and make some concessions. Giving up on debates isn't a solution, that's just giving up. It's important to consider the credibility of past arguments to determine whether a debate is likely to be constructive, or if it would be better to talk to a wall instead.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

So it doesn't take something like the Stomachs from Gavv who already have massive bodycounts including the main Riders' loved ones (of which the fandom generally seems to agree that they're the worst people ever, even more than Banno) to be unsympathetic to you. I thought, except for perhaps Kazari, the Greeeds, other than Maki, are the type who people won't feel that they crossed the lines too much to be beyond redemption or adding sympathetic traits (without those feeling offensive to them). Their villainy are rather like the type such as Jabel or the Dark Sisters, the type whose redemption wouldn't be complained about by the fanbase - with also like what you said above about being someone's hero, the likes of Mezool and Gamel can seem to fit as the heroes for the group, with Gamel being the hero to Mezool (something that people can use to justify a villain as just a good guy in another perspective). Being unsympathetic for many people can be those who they feel are too evil to get one, but I guess for you it can be also about being generic doomsday type.

Well, I did only say mostly unsympathetic, as they do have tragic moments. Gamel being the main example and what happened to Uva at the end isn't something I'd wish on any villain, which makes Dr. Maki more despicable. None of them are comparable to Ankh though, y'know? Weird how my favorite OOO Combos are like inversely proportional to my opinions on the corresponding Greeeds. Dr. Maki and Kazari are terrible people and Mezool is little better, but their Medals are cool as hell.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Yes, but I also always thought of it as just being white, and I'm pretty sure that's the impression they were aiming for? Calling it a pearlescent white or something might be more accurate? I tried to go check some official sources real quick, and rather helpfully, the Zukan website's page for PuToTyra -- despite being plastered with photos where the undersuit looks pretty silvery -- also has the same specs that would've been on the show's own site all the way back in the day, where the bit about the undersuit explicitly says the color has changed to a "shining white". So we definitely aren't just crazy!

Interesting. The silver looks okay as well, but I guess the shining white makes more sense to represent the blankness of Eiji as a vessel for the Purple Medals.

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

So we?re at the point where Eiji becomes a Dinosaur Greeed. Which despite what you might think, wasn?t set in stone from the start, as producer Naomi Takebe had cold feet about implementing the idea. There was also the fact the identity of the dinosaur Greeed was also constantly changing, from a new character, to Hina (which would?ve been the explanation for her super strength) to Date (after his planned death and resurrection), before they went with Maki.

Got to wonder how the idea of Hina being the dinosaur Greeed would've worked, considering how her big bro Shingo is totally human. It's much more bad*ss that Hina's super strength is just a Hina thing though. A supernatural explanation would've ruined that.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Actually expressing some affection for the cast, though he still refers to Eiji as an idiot.

Of course, Ankh wouldn't be a tsundere anymore if he stopped insulting Eiji.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 48 - ?MEDALS FOR TOMORROW, UNDERWEAR, AND ARMS TO REACH OUT WITH?

It?s a very sweet and sad ending for Ankh, which is what needed to happen for this finale to work. It?d be hard to argue that this isn?t a season about Ankh, first and foremost; even Eiji?s story here is about how Ankh has helped him change and grow. Letting Ankh sacrifice the life that he was after to help his friend, because it only became that life through his friendship, that?s as poignant and poetic an ending as you can get, even before we start talking about hands reaching out and all that. Ankh?

In his own profound words, Ankh's hand isn't the one Eiji needs to reach out to anymore. Ankh has already been saved by Eiji through his sincere acts of kindness, that allowed Ankh to finally realize what he was missing all along, a void that the Medals alone couldn't fill. It's not even Ankh suddenly becoming selfless or anything, he wants to repay the favor to Eiji, since it's Eiji and he can no longer deny that he cares about him. Ankh sacrifices himself in the name of his desire, one that actually makes him complete.

There's some behind the scenes stuff here as well, with Kobayashi apparently wanting an ending with Eiji dying instead, but that got an executive veto, like her scrapped ending for Ryuki with all Riders dying. Makes me wonder if she might've had a similar idea for Den-O's Imagins when they were fading away, but they're way too popular for an ending like that as they're needed for future crossovers. For OOO though, I think the ending we got works good enough and the image of the cracked Taka Medal has become a symbol of Eiji's and Ankh's tragic unbreakable connection, like the bench for Kenzaki and Hajime.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Right, the part where it's debated between which is OOO's final form, PuToTyra or TaJaDor. I mean, would people claim Lv. 2 forms of the Ex-Aid Riders are final forms because they're what finished off the final boss? PuToTyra is the one used for most of the big threats in the final portion of the series, just like the final forms in the other Rider series. Some of the other Rider series uses back to base form trope against the final boss, though OOO is more back to mid-season upgrade instead to have TaJaDor being the one that beat Maki, with OOO also using actual base TaToBa, dual wielding Medajalibur and Medagabryu (the bonus character in Climax Heroes Fourze) against Uva after he kicked PuToTyra's ass before. Maybe the actual power up is, obviously, Eiji absorbing the King's medals due to desiring for power this time, guess similar to the "godhood" of some Riders, like Touma and Ace at the end of their series, making him the true OOO. And using TaJaDor with Purple Medals in Taja Spinner is about Eiji and Ankh's collaboration.

Yeah, feels like there are two examples here of proto-Reiwa finale-exclusive forms, with Tatoba enhanced by King's Medals and Tajadol enhanced by Ankh's personal Taka Medal, the latter probably being the main reason for the dumb Final Form debate. Honestly, if OOO aired in Reiwa, there's no way Putotyra's legitimacy would ever have been disputed.