[Kamen Rider Lucha]

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Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

And you completley missed the point. Whatever.

I thought I was responding to a joke with a joke.

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Are you calling my opnion wrong?

No, I'm calling your methodology constricting.

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As much as I'm sure you'd just love to disagree, quality can be judged objectively.

Now, wether someone likes something regardless of quality is something else entirely.

You seem awfully intent to try and cut out the legs of my arguement than face it head on, by pulling the INCREDIBLY weka and petty "opinion" card. (seemingly unaware it ALSO cuts the legs off of yours and his arguements)

Yes, everyone's opinions are different yet equal, do not insult me by assumign I don't. But when you are judging what is esoteric and intangible, you have nothing but "your" standards and your perception. I can not give you a diagram or model of a standard. It is not something I can find or touch.

I don't disagree, per se. And I love plenty of things that are objectively not great (say hello, Kiva!).

But while I think individual elements of a story can be judged objectively -- like character motivations, inter-character conflicts, the trajectory of a plot, the pace of the editing, an actor's performance, clarity of theme -- I think it's much harder (to the point of irrelevance) to objectively measure a complete product. Because at a certain point, individual people will value each element of a story to varying degrees.

And I realize the subjectivity argument is weak, but I don't think that's the argument I'm making. I'm trying to say that people's interpretation and appreciation of a given show is more complex than you're making it seem.

But either way, we're not going to solve the age old debate between objective and subjective interpretations of art on a tokusatsu fan forum. Still, it can be fun to talk about.

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"Flippant" is saying something is a masterpiece. He did not say he "thought" it was a masterpiece, but that it WAS, and I was wrong.

If you truely cared about opinions, you'd not be trying to scratch at my ankles. I NEVER said he was wrong. HE did. HE said I was wrong, and that I was alone in my wrong opinion. He said that, I've quoted him saying it.

I think I read a certain amount of playfulness in Switchblade's post while I read hostility and judgement in yours. Sorry if that's not a fair read.

Also, I have to admit I was irritated by your assertion that he can't hide behind the "Kamen Rider is inherently silly" argument. I find Kamen Rider's absurd, unexplained nonsense inextricable from its appeal -- and how well it balances that nonsense with legitimate excellence is a fundamental part of this franchise's magic. And sometimes, the lack of explanations makes it feel like the world is bigger than the characters who populate it.

You discredited an element of the show that I hold dear -- and which I find necessary to the genre's appeal -- so I felt the need to jump in. Sorry if that seemed like an attack or something.

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Nope.

THAT is opinion.

It's not an opinion that Superman and Action Comics -- Superman's top selling solo titles -- were #48 and #49 respectively on Diamond's top 100 sales chart in January.

Supposedly the most popular super hero in the world can only muster a #48 or #49 sales ranking. That means that DC's approach to the character isn't resonating with audiences. It's my opinion that they're scared of the character's fundamental absurdity, and the stories they tell are contrived as a result of forcing him into a mold he doesn't fit.

But I digress...

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Me, too!

Now you see, this is actually a good position that does change my mind on a few things...

But ultimately still supports my arguement, as it happens. As you said, the emotional logic is sound. Basically, you will accept ASSM's leaps of logic because of it's presentation, and it's narrative significance. Kuuga's leaps of logic don't exist for those reasons. They exist to be flashy, overdone, and be "epic" without any proper grounding or emotional narrative weight. They're a cheap out in creating suspense and grand-scale imagery, rather than being the logical conclusion set by events in or outside the story.

Essentially.

That breach in logic though, that's too much. You just cannot kick a planet and make it explode. There's nothing to be gained from that type of action other than a false idea of 'epicness' as the kids say.

Wow, that was a nice string of positivity and agreement!

But, the World-Ending Kick isn't the problem in and of itself. It would work in a story whose rules allowed for it -- like Dragonball Z or something.

But it seems like, in the context of Kuuga, it's a huge breach of the logic of the world. At least, based on my understanding of the show.

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You are mis-interpreting me.

I'm not saying everyone's limits are the same, but everyone has limits. And as a species with culture and society, those limits are often close.

Obviously my stance is not alone, not that I care if it is, or else EVERY series would have this kind of over-the-top imagery.

It's not that suspension of disbelief is fragile, it's that Kuuga's stupid kick was such a vicious blow to it, as Locke pointed out.

I mean ultimately your entire arguement here has been semantics.

Once I realized the scope of the argument, I totally understand your problem with that scene.