[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I guess the levels for me are:
Killing another Rider - BAD
Putting Riders in situations where they kill each other - NOT GREAT, BOB
Allowing a Rider to be killed by their Contract Monster - GOTTA READ THE FINE PRINT

It's... I feel like Kitaoka at this point isn't killing someone, he's just not saving them, which doesn't feel that terrible to me? Like, Asakura and all the other Riders (well, maybe not Shinji) knew the score when they joined the Rider Battles: you are making a deal with a monster who really wants to eat you. It's a risk every Rider takes, and it's not Kitaoka's fault if that risk goes against Asakura.

Well, apart from Kitaoka, I mean people like Shibaura who also merely putting others in situations to kill each other. He does express to commit murder and he didn't directly do it yet but he can't be considered a better human being than Ren because of that. And not talking only about Rider, but also murdering others too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I mean, I don't know about that. Ren picked that fight. He shouted FIGHT, not Shiro. In fact he's told multiple times to not pick this fight, that he can't win, that he's not powerful enough, that he can't win. Shiro tried to wave him off. Ren started that fight to murder someone, I'm not sure he claim self-defense at any point after that.

Ren picking fights is already standard of him throughout the series. To Sudo, to Kitaoka, to Shinji, etc. though he's more desperate. From beginning he always expects himself to be able to finish, to kill, but can never actually do so like in Gai fight. But he wants to survive, he wants to live (those 2 are separate from killing someone), and Odin forces himself to actually commit murder, unconsciously, otherwise Odin sword goes to Knight's Deck, the only way to prevent that is stabbing Odin himself, killing in self defense. Ren is as shocked as Shiro that he actually went through that, "unconsciously", realized too late that Ren's lance already impales Odin's Deck.