[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by Magnugiga

Well done! Lots of interesting things in the last several pages that I want to respond to, so I'll just cram everything here :v

Thanks! I just finished breakfast, so let's do this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnugiga

I was super bummed out with Miho's eventual fate and how she couldn’t escape the Female Rider Curse, but in retrospect, (1) this is at least in a show where every Rider character dies (one way or the other), and (2) I like the way they kinda subverted the ‘Dead Girlfriend/Love Interest Club’ trope by not having her give final words of encouragement or being used as some sort of ‘power-up’ for a prominent male character. She exited as a character that has a lovely and cute romantic sub-plot (still my favorite pairing in KR, sadly), but she also went out on her own terms and gave us plenty to remember about beyond just her relationship with a male character. Those shots of Shinji’s smiling at his fixed shoelaces, followed some moment later by passersby walking past Miho’s body without a care… just yet another juxtaposition of the heart-warming and the brutal in a series that’s so full of them.

Yeah, I can't really see Miho being Fridged since, as far as the movie is concerned, Shinji doesn't even know she's dead? It's maybe a smart choice, since they don't end up doing anything gross with her death to motivate Shinji, but it's a little weird that he never even knows she dies.

They have a very cute little romance, and I like how balanced their scenes are. She's not some bad-ass character who suddenly loses her autonomy to a man, swooning at his heroism. She's someone who manipulates and betrays, so the fact that this guy knows that and still wants to help, you can see how it wins her over. And for Shinji, this is someone who's like a less lost version of Ren, and maybe she just needs someone to be there for her, to let her know that she doesn't have to be alone in her mission. It's super organic, their relationship. Great writing, and pitch-perfect chemistry.

I absolutely love that part of their dynamic is her trying to take care of a quick-tempered, somewhat scatterbrained Shinji. Just trying to corral this dude, keep him focused, it's great. The fact that her last thought was This Dude Cannot Take Care Of Himself Without Me is hilarious and 100% accurate.

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Originally Posted by Magnugiga

After my last rewatch, I actually did a bit of thought experiment to try to find a way to squeeze Femme, Verde, and Ryuga into the main series and have a proper ’13 Riders Show!!’ as advertised, while still maintaining the general essence and narrative beats of the show. That was a lot harder than expected. I figured you could have Verde as an early boss character in the vein of Scissors and Gai, making his mark and leaving in fairly quickly fashion (obviously Tezuka’s death should still follow the main series narrative, but because Verde’s Final Vent scene was by far the best thing from the Special, he still need to annihilate the hell out of somebody else). Femme could be introduced in mid-series and hang out until near the end, turning the core four Rider characters of Ryuki, Knight, Zolda, and Ouja into a core five. Ryuga would then appear in the show’s penultimate arc and got a bit more screen time than the movie, and after the conclusion of that, you'd proceed to the main series’ endgame.

Problem was, assuming you still have the regular episode count to work with, there’s a lot that need to be cut to accommodate all that. The Tiger and Alternative parts can probably be shortened, but then would you cut the filler/comedic episodes/all the ORE Journal stuff? In any other series, I’d do it in a heartbeat, but not in Ryuki. Those parts are way too good.

First, yeah, you can't drop the comedy episodes. Not only are they some of my favorite moments in the series (Kitaoka's silent Henshin! Yui destroying that apartment! MEGUMI!) but they're great breaks in the story.

As for working in the other three Riders, interesting thought experiment!

Femme is the most intriguing of the three, and that Shinji chemistry is great, so she'd definitely need to be in the series for a stretch. I'd introduce her when Ren starts to distance himself from the group, use her goals and connection to Shinji as a way of commenting on Ren's story.

Ryuga I'd save until the very end, an avatar for Shiro to fight with. I like the idea of Shiro's Rider just being a more powerful, less humane version of whoever made it to the end, and him being convinced it was going to be Shinji. (You tease appearances of Shiro's avatar in the back third, as he looks into mirrors and sees Dark Femme as she's winning, or Dark Tiger as he's winning.) That way you've got Dark Ryuki versus Knight in the finale, and that works a lot better for me.

Verde... so, here's where I'd make some big changes to the plot. I'd use Verde in place of Shiro/Odin for a lot of the story. He's a guy with limitless resources who really wants the Rider Battles to happen. He'd be the one juicing the story, getting involved when Shinji tries to shut things down. He'd be the one to give Asakura a Card Deck, maybe. He'd be a more direct thematic opposite to Shinji, like in the 13 Riders special. As Shinji is going around, trying to stop the fighting with emotional appeals to honor, to humanity, you'd have Verde on the other end of the battlefield making arguments for dominance, for greed. I'd probably have him taken out once the Second Secret Science Society hits the stage, and then you could do the Imperer story with the reveal that his dad was Verde.

For Shiro, I'd mostly keep him as a silent observer, and I'd avoid having him interfere in the Rider Battles. But! I'd tweak Reiko's investigation in the middle to feature flashbacks of Scientist Shiro. This way, I think you could do a lot to humanize his goal, show the emotional weight of his desire to avert Yui's death, which would make the ending of the show resonate more. Also, it'd be a great way to more naturally impart exposition about the mechanics of Rider Battles, the wish at the end, whatever. All of those details could get dropped in as needed. Also also, it'd make Reiko's plot feel more informative, less redundant. It'd mean that she'd have info that'd be, if not more useful, then at least different than what the Riders knew.

I have no idea how you could fit all that in an already-stuffed series. Maybe drop Atori, add Yui to Ore Journal? They feinted towards that early in the run. Could work.

I don't usually try and think of this stuff, try and "fix" stories, so I hope that doesn't sound too dumb!

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Originally Posted by Magnugiga

All in all, Ryuki is my favorite KR because it hit the perfect balance of comedic highs (low key it’s a supremely funny series), dramatic highs (so many memorable character arcs), and action highs (by far my favorite overall suit design, Rider line-up, and weapon gimmick. Fight scene choreography and music are also on point). For me, character overrides plot most of the time, except when the plot was so bad it actively derails character development—which didn’t really happen here. The flaws are mostly in structural and general world-building sense, and I can totally see how a viewer who’s more used to Heisei Phase II (only seen a few of those myself, but what’s immediately apparent to me is how it generally has more cogent world-building and plothole proofing compared to earlier Heisei ones) would be less tolerant to it. I myself would probably notice more of these in my next rewatch, but this thread also pointed out even more good things that I overlooked—so yeah, I’m pretty confident it’s still going to be my favorite KR after the rewatch.

I think the big difference between Phase 2 and Phase 1, when it comes to worldbuilding so far, is that I think Phase 1 is more about episodic content while Phase 2 is more about series-long stories. (This is not a hard rule! There are exceptions!) I feel like modern Kamen Rider has an expectation that fans are going to watch every episode, if not now then in the future, so they can have dramatic shifts in the premise and put more thought into how it's all going to feel after watching it all. The Phase 1 stuff, I feel like they were concerned that kids might miss episodes, or even big chunks, so the basic premise needs to stay fairly static. (Kuuga fights monsters. Agito fights monsters. Ryuki fights monsters and other Riders.) There can be shifts in character relationships, who's in the spotlight or who's mad at who, but it's a lot smaller and easier to explain than There Is A New Big Boss And Here's What They Want.

The newer approach has some positives (tighter-ish series plots, more big changes after events) but also some negatives (whole arcs end up not working sometimes, plots can get a little too complex). It's a trade-off, for sure.

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Originally Posted by Magnugiga

Looking forward to the next threads—I just finished Faiz last year (and currently almost done with Blade and Hibiki), so I may have plenty to chime in. Congrats again on finishing this project, and thank you for maintaining such a fun and thought-provoking content, especially in this extremely tough time.

Thanks again! I'm glad y'all are cool with me talking about this stuff, and have stuff of your own to bring up. This fandom has been incredibly kind, and I'm happy to be a part of it. I'm excited to see what you've got to say about Faiz!