[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Yeah, Deneb has a lot of Jiiya in him, where he's trying to provide guidance for someone he cares about while being subservient to him. It definitely can lead to a spoiled character, but hopefully Yuuto can turn out as well as Tsurugi did, rather than how Kyosuke did.

The Makoto comparison is interesting, but I think this show is doing it in reverse? There may be a twist coming for the whole Yuuto/Sakurai story, but currently it seems like they're telling us that Yuuto eventually becomes the kind Sakurai at some point in the future. Even though Ryotaro knows him as a good man, this version is still the abrasive teenager.

Feel like Jiiya can be biased to Tsurugi (not in demeaning way, but still can make Tsurugi get away scot free for his problems) even if he can soften him, while Deneb has more concern for others (albeit he does tell that Yuuto isn't a bad person). I was mainly comparing Deneb to Kintaros, as he's another Imagin without malicious traits. And about Makoto, "Ryotaro knows him as a good man, this version is still the abrasive teenager", well my point was that same goes for Makoto, "Takeru and Akari knew him as a caring friend, this current version is still the aggressive hostile man".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 20 - “I’M WARNING YOU NOW”

Like, Ryotaro’s Imagin are all characters on the show, but they also represent parts of him that he’s buried, or that he’s obscured in some way. Momo is his passion, Ura is his cunning, Kin is his bravery, Ryu is his protectiveness. How he balances the powers of the Imagin to detonate monsters is really just a metaphor for how we each get through a day. How we juggle all of these impulses.

The best part, to me, is how the show is clear that these impulses can be good and bad.

And probably, Imagins in the contract holders of the week is a representation of the potential worst side of the contract holders? That if they have enough powers and no moral, they'll do what the Imagins do to get their wish right? Kobayashi's shows all dealing with wishes, Ryuki with a war that grants the winner a wish, Den-O with wish-granting Imagins, and OOO with Greeed feeding off human desire. And for the Imagins except Kin (it represents Ryotaro's moral too then?) having negative traits... that would qualify for Ryotaro too... right? Like you said there, Momotaros turning him into a violent misfit, Urataros turning him into manipulative jerk, Ryutaros turning him into a trigger-happy spoiled man (him insisting to kill a contract holder). They represent Ryotaro's trait taken to the extremes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

So it’s nice to get this Yuuto/Deneb story that has a jerk human and a good Imagin, giving us an inversion of the typical formula. It’s a story where we get to see a team that’s both more effective, and more unhappy.

Yeah, this one's an inversion where the human is worse and the monster is better. Deneb is like you said, probably the soft side of Yuuto that is stated by Nogami siblings, and likely if this Yuuto still has it, something that he tries to push away, like Kobayashi's previous secondary Rider Ren. And actually, contrary to popular belief, like what you talk here about balance of kindness and pragmatism, Yuuto's personality of being adverse to something like friendship or feelings, viewing those as weakness, is actually detrimental, because they can eventually lack the efficiency due to them pushing others away, without any support needed to overcome the odds, or that they can make things worse too (just like if kindness is taken too far), just like Tsurugi, pushing away others because of self-righteousness and is intolerant to others' views (like Yuuto to Den-O in this fight), it can just cause a civil war between protagonists, hindering their effectiveness a lot (either reduced bad guy fighters, or harmed allies that turned into actual dead weight against foes). And for you saying Deneb barrier-ing Yuuto's success in combat, I don't think I'll agree on that, Deneb doesn't like hold back on the Imagin or something, he just fights and eliminates them as usual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

THE BAGGAGE CAR

-Sort of shocked that this show would have the guts to do an on-the-nose Buried Past story as the monster plot in a two-parter that is largely concerned with the Sakurai of the past. Bold! I think it worked okay as a parallel to the Airi/Sakurai plot that’s more in the foreground lately, plus I just thought it was sweet? It’s this very minor story about a guy whose fiance died, and about how him living a happy life is honoring her more than clinging to the past, and about how hard it can be to move on from grief. I just liked it.

Well, with Den-O setting being based on time travel, like the dog before, this situation can potentially be changed by saving the fiancee, as the time travel rule here is the usual change the past change the future type. But this will lead into the argument of, saving others or changing the flow of time (which is like Ryotaro vs Yuuto at this point) which I wonder which changes are small enough to not change the flow of time, including before where the dog is saved by Ryotaro, where this one is just like Tetsuo one, improving the condition of someone griefing based on the past, and giving him a closure needed to push forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Even when we’re into the second-half of the episode, with Sword Form trying to stop a monster in 2006, Ryotaro is still doing the Wrong Thing. Instead of chasing down the monster, he puts Momo on hold to check on the stunned couple. He’s more invested in saving these two than he is in stopping the monster.

I wish that Ryotaro checking the contract holder and Den-O fighting monsters can be utilized more strategically like, Ryotaro and the Imagins are more than 1 being, I wonder if the Imagins can fight and hold off the monsters by themselves, while Ryotaro goes to check the contract holders. They're going to the battlefield by possessing Ryotaro either in human form or as one of Den-O's forms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And then it’s the first appearance of Zeronos: a stunning sequence of Henshins, catchphrases, form changes, hilarious non-boasts (Deneb doesn’t want that monster to think the Vega chestpiece is a functioning head! He doesn’t want to deceive the rampaging Jellyfish Imagin), and badass finishers. In an episode built to say Yuuto Is Right, that whole fight was the goddamn exclamation mark.

Don't think that Zeronos' finisher is that cool, well I just had tight marking of Rider's finishers. Zeronos' default form seems to still possess Deneb's traits like the green color, and most importantly, it's strong enough to fight off monsters unlike Plat Form. Deneb taking part of Zeronos instead turns it into new form, Vega form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But he’s not right. Or, he is, Yuuto was more effective than Ryotaro, but it doesn’t matter? It’s not about Most Effective or Least Effective. It’s not a contest. It’s about personal responsibility, and being the best version of yourself that you can be. Yuuto’s metrics for success aren’t Ryotaro’s, and that’s fine. Ryotaro is going to keep doing what he feels is right. He might do it badly, but as long as he’s doing his best he can be proud of himself. He’s going to help that couple. He’s going to save Sakurai for Airi. Because that’s what he thinks is right.

And Hana knows that Ryotaro’s heroism being rooted in empathy, in the small picture of a grieving would-be husband looking for closure, that’s what gives Den-O the power to save the day. The two of them digging up that time capsule and delivering it to that guy, to viewing that as the real victory of the episode, such a fantastic ending. To do a whole story about a new, better Rider who you then immediately see as second-best… surprisingly great story to tell.

Yeah, like above I said, Yuuto's not right. And wouldn't talk about Yuuto being more effective than Ryotaro either, pushing away friends would deride them of the supports needed if one can't overcome the odds, or create an infighting between allies like Tsurugi, fighting off allies because of you disagreeing with them, which will just injure and tire out both allies, rendering them too weak against the actual foes. Yuuto is solely focused on only protefcting the flow of time, without (at least on surface) care for other things, so of course his way will accomplish his goals as it's only for protecting the flow of the time, but will it be the right way and improve the situation, creating the best outcome for everyone else? Not necessarily. Ryotaro doing what he thinks the right isn't bound by rule, like the changing the flow of time part, and that reminds me of Yusuke who "borrows" a police bike as his sense of right and wrong doesn't have much to do with the law. Hana also previously asked Ryotaro about his choices that can potentially change the time flow, but Hana is a hostile figure to the Imagins, but total opposite to Ryotaro, especially with the actual proof of Ryotaro's action making the situation better for others while keeping the time flow same, Hana's full support of Ryotaro also includes his actions here.