[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

What people can't is 'whitewash' them and excuse their morally bad aspects. People can like them and find them interesting while acknowledging the negative traits.

Sure! We can debate whether or not the show is ignoring/forgiving/minimizing Otoya's flaws, but it is undebatable that everyone in this thread has pointed out that Otoya is awful. If there's one point of consensus so far, it's that Otoya is The Worst. We're all on the same page there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

And again I want to ask for the contrasting reaction between this and a previous series. Here, you think Wataru facing the reality of his dad's past is relatable and this part has him apologizing to others for Otoya and likely blaming himself for their misfortunes, but before in a series like Blade, you think the idea that something someone's father did without knowledge and prevention gives enormous weight equals to them being unable to function as a person and that you can't relate for "I Must Atone For My Family’s Misdeeds"? That parents aren't extension or reflection of the child and thus is their own people and responsible of their own actions?

I mean, if you ever bring up a "contradiction" like this, where I praise one show for doing a plot I disliked on another show, my answer is always going to be the same: Execution Matters.

That plot on Blade was... I mean, I'm pretty sure I liked the beginning of it? (I honestly barely remember that show, my thoughts on it, what I wrote, etc. My memory for these things is terrible.) There was some stuff in there that I liked about what Shiori was going through, how she needed to internalize her shame and move on. That was thematically relevant to Blade, the need to recover from failure. The longer the show wanted to spend on some shitty thing her dad did (U.N.D.A.D.? Was that where the story went?), as though she had any control over it, the less I was into that plot. It felt tangential to what was going on there.

With Kiva, the whole story is about Wataru trying to connect with his father. This type of plot is way more meaningful to the series, and way more looped into the themes. Wataru as a character, specifically, is wrapped up in trying to live up to his father's memory. Having that memory become a negative force is... I mean, it is exactly the sort of story this show was built to tell.

Long story short, Wataru feeling immense guilt over things his father did is more important story than Shiori feeling immense guilt over something her did. They have different weights to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I like that Yuri is consistently the most competent and least weird character and how she's good in combat even without a Rider System. As a waitress, she acts similar to Hiyori, with how she speaks rudely to Otoya, but she has no problem being polite and formal around most other customers. Even though it's good etiquette to show respect to all customers equally, I can't really blame her for making an exception with Otoya who totally deserves most of the bad stuff that happens to him. It's not like Master cares either, since his tolerance for Otoya is also limited. Yuri's respect is hard to earn, especially by people whose flaws are always in the foreground of their behavior.

Some of this hasn't quite happened yet (I think Otoya's only been to Mal d'Amour in the credits?), but, yeah, Yuri having to be the Adult in her relationship with Otoya is pretty great.