[EpsilonX]

Dang, so much discussion happened since yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

The reasons why people hate Kiva are completely baffling to me. Like, how can you overlook how elegantly they weave the two timelines within each episode and dwell on shit like, "they never explained where the castle dragon came from, so this show sucks." Like -- what!? Why are you complaining about Emperor form when we just witnessed some devastating emotional and thematic parallel artfully drawn between Wataru and Otoya from decades apart?? Are you literally 12 years old???

Is is a perfect show? No. The ending is a little anticlimactic and the treatment of the women characters can be iffy at times (though its treatment is a damn sight better than the majority of other Kamen Rider series of that era). But those are not good enough reasons to completely discount a show that was very well done for like 90% of its run.

So much of my contempt for the larger toku fandom (not Tokunation, you guys are gems, even when I disagree) is crystalized in the nonsense disregard for Kiva.

On that note, I think my disdain for toku fans (and anime fans, while we're at it) comes from how so many people seem to judge shows based on things that don't actually matter. I've seen people write off anime because it doesn't have "sakuga" moments. For those who don't know, those are moments when the animation suddenly gets way more impressive. Sure, those are cool, but they're not essential to telling an engaging story. For a more toku-related example, the dragon thing is a perfect example. Or the lizard-motorcycle thing that only showed up for an episode or two. Were those handled perfectly? No. But in all honesty...how much does their mishandling really affect the series?

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Why are you not a fan of romance in stories?

I'm not who you were asking, but I also don't care much for romance stories. I think the reason is because I hate how much emphasis society puts on relationships. I know so many people who base their entire self-worth on whether they're in a relationship or not, or think entering into a relationship will solve all of their problems. There's also a ton of people who pursue somebody simply because being around them leads to a serotonin release. But that shouldn't be what a relationship is built upon.

It's been a while since I watched it, so I don't remember it perfectly...but I found it hard to believe that their romantic interests in Jetman were based in anything other than lust and impulsive decision-making. Sure, it's realistic, and was well-written. But man, I find it so annoying. I wanted to slap Gai and tell him to stfu for most of it.

Despite that, it was still an enjoyable and engaging story.

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Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Romance is a tricky topic, and there are a lot of pitfalls in it. Sometimes it feels like it's only included because, well, there has to be a romance, otherwise people won't like it.

Here's the other reason. Romance often feels forced into stories where it doesn't need to exist, simply because of what I said earlier - so many people are obsessed with romance culture.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

Circling back to Jetman, I think the reason that romance plot works for me is that it is specifically not a healthy one, and I think that's by design. The love triangle in Jetman exposes as many (if not more) negative traits in the characters as it does heroic and redemptive ones. Love is responsible for characters doing as many reprehensible things as noble things. It drives people to the brink of madness more often than it leads them to happiness. Seen through that perspective, I find Jetman's emphasis on toxic romance endlessly fascinating... in particular, because all of them resolve in the least stable and healthy ways imaginable. And for this to be the first major romantic arc in Sentai -- one so clearly destructive for all parties involved -- is ballsy as fuck, and I have no idea how Inoue got away with it on a show for eight-year-olds in 1991.

Well, I'm glad we're on the same page about it being unhealthy behavior. I guess you make a good point - while I do find it annoying that the characters act like that, at the very least, they faced repercussions for their awful behavior. Normally, toxic romantic behavior seems to be applauded (or, at least, it did)

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Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

On that note, this was quite a revelation for me, because this is basically exactly how I feel about Faiz, just replace self-destructive romance with self-destructive lack of communication. Faiz fascinated me with how things spiraled out of control and felt like it had something to say about humans and how they struggle to convey their thoughts to others.

I'm so entirely afraid to watch Faiz because I think I'll be annoyed to no end If one thing bothers me more than toxic relationship behavior, it's toxic lack of communication. I've worked in customer service, currently work in marketing, and all of the people I interact with on a daily basis are non-native English speakers. I have to be careful and clear with my choice of words, and even then, I sometimes falter. But at least I admit that. It's infuriating to me when people don't even try, yet they think they're completely in the right.

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Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Me, having been stalled out for weeks on Kiramager, watching Fish marathon Jetman in like 2 weeks

Don't feel bad, I started watching Kiramager when it first aired and am only like halfway through

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Who among the remaining Five Venoms do you think has the coveted Madoku Ringi? I thought it was cool how they make it seem like one of them is about to use it, but then their Ringi turns out to be something else instead, making it a constant mystery to find out who actually has it. You're almost at the exciting climax for this arc so keep watching!

Honestly, I think it's probably not even one of them. The last of the Five Venoms will be defeated, and they won't have the ring. Leo and Mele are going to be like "wtf, I thought one of them had it. Where is it?" and keep searching. That's my prediction.

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I feel like I used to be a little unfair to Kiva, even as someone who never actually disliked it. On a rewatch, I picked up on a lot of cool details that I missed before and the stuff I remember disliking wasn't even that bad. So now I think it's an awesome show! Maybe it's like that for other people as well. Maybe people just need to rewatch it to see if they still feel the same way.

I'm glad you gave it another shot and found more to appreciate!


Whew. Okay, I'm done.