[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Burn Him Down was more of an emphasizing but I probably could've picked a better word yeah, my main point was about how if it's a minor character then their actions are (properly) emphasized more mercilessly and if it's major character then no matter how severe their actions, far more than said minor character, it's about emphasizing pity for them instead (actually there's an implication that Olteca's father abusing the mother too for "they're" terrible parents part). Granted that minor character would have less fleshing so their story isn't known, but still it gave me that vibe before (but you'd view it as separate topic for the redemption) to talk about pity for Olteca here or implying he may love something, compared to more merciless take to his father.

Sorry if I was unclear, by "they're", I was referring to Gai's and Olteca's individual fathers. Nothing against Olteca's mother. Gai's father would've preferred a super genius son like Olteca who could actually get those 1000% results. I think it's possible to pity Olteca without condoning his evil actions, as he only turned to Deadmans for a similar reason as Julio, to find somewhere he would be accepted when society rejected him. But it's like you say for Aguilera, a tragic backstory isn't a free pass for redemption. Characters still need to show through their actions that they're capable of changing for the better. My other beef with Olteca's father is that his physical abuse shows he doesn't truly love his son or respect his genius, beating him out of jealousy and spite. If a person doesn't receive love, then it's harder for them to give it, which explains why Olteca always acts so cold. He was denied that affection as a kid. Unless we consider his mother, but we don't have enough information yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

There are many other villains that aren't on irredeemable level in the franchise too, but still really nasty, like Tiger, Orchid Undead, TheBee Kageyama, Kai, Saeko (.. both Lucky Clover and Sonozaki), Kazari, Ora, etc. I'd think Adel's at best (worst) there, but not outright on the irredeemable ones like Banno's level (and Olteca's). To me targeting family there is terrible but it'd feel like targeting specific people that stands in his way (to usurp the throne) rather than indiscriminately which I feel is less worse. And yeah he did brainwash a lot of people, but to me it'd be scale-based (his power allowing him to affect more people), and it's like those villains who has ruling the world as a goal (though in Adel's case, becoming the world), and that's a mainstream goal but it won't make them irredeemable by default.

I don't think Hikaru belongs in the same league as those other villains you mentioned, considering how she had a selfless and honorable side as well, compared to someone like Saeko who was only concerned with her own survival and even threw away her humanity. Adel was considered irredeemable in-universe though, since Onari claimed he shouldn't be forgiven for murdering Ryu. But Takeru's kindness was able to reach Adel's heart and show that he could still change and seek forgiveness, even after everything he did. I wonder if Takeru would react similarly to Olteca, trying to appeal to his heart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

But otherwise, Olteca's father did much worse to him than Gai's father did (Gai's father is the Asian parents' bad stereotype, overly harsh but relatively more 'normal'/'mundane'), and it's used as Olteca further escalates his crimes instead here. If it'd be rushed at that point then just don't do it (the redemption), or the mistake is the production not bringing that up at Gai's buildup instead of him at late. And like human Olteca here, it doesn't need to be done by killing Gai to finish the job even if he's not redeemed. Even as a 'lesson' as per KR teaching morals, it would be a bad idea to use Gai's one as an example. Non-believable ones can instead drive them away the concept of redemption as it'd seem too ridiculous. A redemption done well would be praised like Alain's, no one criticizes that despite Ghost's reputation (Adel's "redemption" also can get criticism like Gai's at times btw, but again, not for Takeru or his family's characters there).

I'd also put Gai's father in a higher moral position than Olteca's, for wanting his son to be successful and only expressing disappointment without resorting to aggression. He still sucks though. Even though Gai's redemption was a little rushed, I personally think Episode 38 gave it solid execution, at least. I think Sakuragi really sells that emotional scene with his powerful acting. I appreciate how post-redemption Gai feels like the same character, like a wiser version of himself who acknowledges his own fallibility, without losing his air of confidence and charisma. But I guess it's subjective whether or not his redemption was actually good. Sure, it doesn't compare to Alain, but that's like the golden standard for strong redemption arcs.