[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

This is a real Personal Preference type of thing, but I've never liked plots that are about a villain tricking a hero into getting super-powerful -- more powerful than even the villain -- and then somehow stealing that power and securing total victory.

It's the "somehow" that always drives me up the wall. If you're powerful enough to steal that hero's powers, why do you even need them in the first place? And what if you aren't powerful enough to steal the hero's power? Aren't you just creating your own defeat?

This is fair, if it's just the plot of villains stealing heroes' power being inherently questionable to you. Though to be fair, this IS Kamen Rider which'd mean, Sougo is only a human if he doesn't henshin and had his belt only, and Swartz can take the upgraded belt that contains Ohma Zi-O power while Sougo's in his human form or something. The part of not being powerful to steal the hero's power, that's quite the cliche downfall for villains that has this plot, and that's probably often done to show how arrogance and superiority complex will be your undoing.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 47 - ?2019 - VANISHING WATCH?

There?s a thing we do, at the comics shop I co-own. If someone asks how a book is, and you don?t like it, you don?t say ?It?s bad.? Bad?s objective, and unhelpful. Art?s subjective. It?s better to allow for that subjectivity by saying something like ?It wasn?t for me.? Saying it that way acknowledges that your own personal likes and dislikes might?ve colored the experience, and someone else might take more out of it than you did.

True, like hating-Sougo-for-not-being-Tsukasa (as in, 'Tsukasa entertains me with that toxic and charismatic presence, but fuck Sougo for not giving that what a terrible character!'). I do prefer if the subjectivity is known like this, but many cases have people dictating what is good taste (such as praising what's generally liked and bashing what's generally hated), and have the ones who aren't like that being attacked. By that too, people can go apeshit for being told to acknowledge subjectivity or even just someone else who takes more out of it trying to defend and explain something they bash.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Tackling the second one first, because that?s how unnecessarily convoluted this series has gotten: You can do a multiverse story, or you can do a time travel story. You cannot do a time-traveling multiverse story. This was a show where characters met Kamen Riders by traveling back in time, or by meeting them in the modern day. Now, at the eleventh hour, we?re told that this has really been a multiverse story, where Sougo?s been tricked into leaving other worlds defenseless by stealing their Rider?s powers.

To be fair though, there are no fixed rule for time travel because it's not something that can be achieved in real world, at least so far, and probably that the truth about time travel is, something that was revealed by Aqua before about how the past would never be changed like many time travel depicted it. Other than Decade doing disparate realities, Den-O was the one that did time travel story though, and despite that series' popularity, the plot is considered as its main weakness.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And, outside of a perplexing endgame, there?s really nothing else here. The ?emotional? content is just Sougo and Tsukuyomi returning to the Misery Suburbs of 2058 to get some hard evidence regarding Swartz?z most-recent absurd claims, and I was actually excited about this plotline at first. Team Zi-O has been almost permanently reactive in the series arc, so a more serious Sougo opting to investigate a wild claim instead of accepting it at face value is a nice development!

Too bad there?s nothing substantial waiting for him that we either didn?t already know, or couldn?t?ve surmised. Swartz is ? are you sitting down? ? a guy who cares more about power than protecting his sister. I know! Stunning! Well worth the trip! Literally everything about his relationship with Tsukuyomi is stuff the character already told her several episodes ago, so I don?t know why the show would waste time reiterating it. The info about how Swartz is planning to destroy everything is new, but it also makes zero sense.

It's a nice development for someone in that team to investigate the wild claim, but you somehow didn't complain about how Team Zi-O was permanently reactive? Because being reactive is often a criticism for heroes, and that characters like villains often are seen to be the one who is active and makes the plot thus they're the ones inherently more interesting. But then again, we all know that Swartz is the active one and the one who made Zi-O plot, but he's poorly received for a good reason. So that should break the claim that villains are always better for being 'inherently' active and plot maker.

Other than how it's meant to show Swartz's comparison to Tsukasa. Swartz's goal is a twisted replication of Decade's story (and what'd happen if Sougo chose to do nothing, as the other options are killing Swartz and making his friend vanish, letting Swartz win, or becoming Ohma Zi-O). In Decade, Tsukasa's powers were unwittingly fusing the A.R. Rider worlds with his which will destroy them all thus he needs to destroy the A.R. worlds, Swartz is willingly and forcefully fusing every world except his into one so he can destroy it. At the end of Decade's story, Tsukasa let himself be killed after he killed every Rider so a unified world could be born with all the dead Riders revived, Swartz simply wants to save his world to rule it and is willing to do anything to accomplish his goal. Tsukasa had his sister being his anchor, who had been corrupted to fight for Dai-Shocker. While Swartz's treatment of Tsukuyomi, redundant to convey it here already!

He even contrasts Kaitou too. Kaitou broke away from an authority position to escape the controlling influence of his bullying big brother, while stealing only unique, irreplaceable objects from every dimension he visited as collectibles. Swartz chose to stay in his position of authority, taking away the unique powers of the Heisei Kamen Riders to advance his plans. And he's the one who's bullying big brother instead of the one who got bullied, manipulating Heure and attempting to murder Tsukuyomi. As Another Decade, Swartz summons Dark Riders that appeared in the various Kamen Rider movies while Kaitou's world is based on Blade's movie.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Swartz?z plan is to combine all worlds into one, and then destroy them. (I don?t? why would his be left? Why does it matter how many timelines exist? Why is any of this happening, and why would it matter to his timeline if he?s not around? Couldn?t the more powerful Alpina keep that timeline intact?) It?s a ludicrous explanation from this show, because the very first scene of the very first episode contradicts it. Oma Zi-O exists in the future of Sougo?s world. If Sougo?s world is destroyed in 2019, Oma Zi-O and the Misery Fields of 2068 can?t exist. Even allowing for the idea that Swartz?z plan negates that potential future, that future only exists because of Swartz?z plan. It? none of this makes any sense.

I don't think that Alpina is actually more powerful, actually, and I do think that this plot is redundant to show to the audience, but this is done to show that Swartz's claim to be well-intentioned to save his world by destroying the other ones are bullshit, not bullshit as in about how convoluted it is, but about how he's just self-serving beneath his 'noble' claims, of which Sougo apparently exposed him here by asking the scenario if Alpina is more powerful than him (A̶l̶p̶i̶n̶a̶ ̶W̶a̶t̶c̶h̶e̶s̶ ̶>̶ ̶S̶w̶a̶t̶c̶h̶) then of course Swartz would go apeshit instead, which shows that Swartz only cared about being superior to his younger sister, but obviously we all already know Swartz is a depraved SOB and this plot is not necessary to show that further.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

There was nothing for me in this episode, beyond the tawdry nostalgia of guest appearances. (Fun to see Chase again, at any rate.) I said at the beginning of this thread that the stuff I care least about are the anniversary elements, so let that help you understand the depth of my disappointment. The exploration of the series arc was horrifyingly incoherent, while the character development was facile and obvious. Exhausting to see a show so dedicated to evaporating all of my goodwill.

Regarding Chase part, it's actually a consequence of the world merging, as Chase comes from the new timeline where Drive doesn?t exist, but he still has his memories pre-Drive Watch and they are bubbling to the surface because time has been completely screwed up. As when Another Riders were defeated, the original Riders temporarily regained their memories. Then when Sougo obtained the Watch, the Riders would lose their memories again.

I don't know if they did bring up Heisei finale at this time but different from what you suggested, like how here, the worlds are merging with every Ridewatch that breaks. In succession, the Skywall from Build, complete with Clone Smash and Guardians. Then Roidmudes of Drive appear, lead by an Another World Mashin Chaser. Then the Fuuto Tower and Yggdrasill Tower of W and Gaim appear, causing Masquerade Dopants and Elementary Inves to appear. Then the Mirror World of Ryuki merges with Earth, causing the sky to be filled with Mirror Monsters. Finally, the GrandZi-O RideWatch fades, and by then, OOO's, Fourze's, Hibiki's, and Kabuto's realities have also fused. That's how the stakes are done in the worlds in Zi-O, the culmination of the various paradoxes that have happened over the course of the series, unsealing the powers and history in said previous Rider series but not the Riders, that forces Decade to destroy the world.

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

Though I will say, I prefer Schwartz as a villain to most of the post-Gaim villains, (save Ghost?s), in that he has a plan that seems logical given his background (I still do not get why the CEO of a game company wanted to conquer the world) and an actual reason behind his plan (which far too many of those shows relied on to V-Cinemas for).

If you refer to Masamune, I wonder what position/occupation someone takes that you think the ones that are suitable to take over the world? I mean, being a CEO is about having the position where the company is under their control, and suitably, Masamune is a huge control freak, he wants to control more than only his own company, but everyone's fates as well. So he uses Kamen Rider Chronicle to get as many human lives under his control as possible. And Kamen Rider is a world with superpowers, so it's possible that it's what the worst type of depraved CEO want to do if they actually have superpowers.