[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by DreamSword

Meanwhile with Ryuga, sure, I wouldn't say he's a great guy, but alot of his actions and his general thought process are really understandable for the most part. Sento promises to help Ryuga clear his name only to proceed to not actually put any effort towards that. Ryuga's' primary motive is also to avenge his girlfriend and to make sure that no one else suffers as she did, which I'd personally qualify as far more heroic than anyone in the show gives him credit for.

Motives alone don't determine if you're the most heroic or not. Much more things also determine it, like actions/methods (not only about beating up bad guys), worldviews (as a root for their actions), etc. Though as said, Banjou's motivation that time is about himself.

Even genuine selfless motives doesn't automatically make them heroic, like if they're extremists who'd accomplish that by primarily doing extreme things they'd be (typically) anti-villains, such as Takatora in Gaim wanting to preserve the human race, but doing so by committing genocide on the remaining humans not getting Sengoku Drivers (albeit he had asked for Ryoma to focus on quantity for mass Sengoku Drivers so there can be more humans saved).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Everyone has the right to complain about their hardships. Just because Misora arguably has it harder doesn't mean that Ryuga should be looked down on for venting about his own very legitimate problems.

Yes you can. What people should learn (including me at times) is that, it's not you alone who have hardships, anyone else can have their own hardships as well. The world doesn't revolve around you. Banjou had complained that "Sento is so selfish for focusing on his own problems... he should be focusing on my problems!", and that's entitlement (and a hypocrisy) to think that everyone should only cater to his problems.

Of course Banjou's behavior is understandable, but someone being understandable doesn't mean they get free pass for everything (which is also often used for outright villains too, like explaining their actions as in "they have bad childhood!")

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

However, I don't think this is necessarily a bad trait, nor do I think it makes Sougo any less heroic. The Sougo we know generally only uses it for good and due to his lack of friends, it's probably his coping mechanism and the only way he knows how to work with people who regularly debate whether or not they should kill him.

Yeah, some traits like master manipulator is often seen/portrayed as an inherently bad/villainous trait (and even for heroic ones, this often applies to ethics-ignoring anti-heroes as it serves as their dark trait). But a weapon to save the day isn't only fighting/brute force, but human nature knowledge, wit, words, people skill, etc. also count. Though not only the characters, many audience seem to get used to only Sougo's idiotic demeanor to see him as cunning.

Though even that applies to Sougo somewhat too that his manipulating is one of the dark traits that can lead into him becoming Ohma Zi-O, if not moderated, shown in the Ryuki tribute 2-parter (ep. 21-22).