[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 15 - “OUR RESOLUTION, AND WHAT LIES BEYOND IT”

It’s the sort of plot that the show ABSOLUTELY should’ve had the villains talking about with each other for months, since not only does it not change the tension or tone of the series if you knew about it all along, it actually gives it enough contours to feel like there’s a deliberate strategy behind the various weekly battles. (I mean, not a ton of strategy. I definitely don’t understand how any of the Avalon stuff was supposed to help them with opening a portal?) Withholding crucial context just made weeks of episodes feel aimless and inconsequential from a plot standpoint, and the mystery left in its place was never intriguing enough to invest in. When we finally get to the end of the road with the Book Club, they’re just hitting all of the most basic beats of a tokusatsu villain: We need to get enough collectibles to get godlike power, and then we’ll make you all suffer. That’s what they had us waiting for, instead of providing the minimum amount of information. It’s a stunningly poor decision, in retrospect.

Tbf, the Book Club now made better impression on me with them whooping the Rider's ass untransformed, though otherwise, there's not much going for them for now yeah, but dunno (as a first watcher) if this'd be more like MetsubouJinrai.net in Zero-One, or just end up like Time Jackers. Otherwise (perhaps I've asked but forgot the outcome), do you only use the term generic for something not clicking with you? It does happen more to the disliked story part, for my experience yeah, like how primary Riders like Touma are the ones most often getting labeled as generic, with secondary Riders not, even when as you said, Rintaro was a breath of a fresh air compared to the Teruis or Fuwas (which'd mean being an edgy asshole is another 'generic' in its own right). I'd say there's no such thing as "generic" now, every fictional series had all ideas being done, redone, retold, and recycled ad nauseam.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

As for the So Convoluted reveal, I… Jesus, I barely know where to start with Kamijo’s confession.

So, he’s a dedicated member of the Sword of Logos. He’s good friends with Fukamiya. One day, Fukamiya decides that he needs to sacrifice Luna to bridge the regular world with Wonder World, and gain Universal Truth. Kamijo sees that this is both lunacy and heresy, and takes down Calibur. (Not pictured in this flashback are the armies of Megid the other Swordsmen fought, so I guess Calibur raised an army via delivery app or something?) This is all vaguely in line with what we’d been told, even if the Fukamiya stuff still seems very He Just Went Crazy. But, this is all tracking so far.

Though Kamijo is far from one of the most despicable villains, actually an anti-villain (thus was sort on path of redemption after his fight with Touma here, easier to be reasoned with), I do think that what Kamijo did is too drastic when compared to the scale of the events, more like about how just a single dramatic event drastically changes one's outlook in life completely and totally. N̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶s̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶G̶a̶i̶/̶T̶h̶o̶u̶s̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶s̶t̶o̶r̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶Z̶e̶r̶o̶-̶O̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶.̶ It's more like how Kamijo now believes that the end justifies the means due to said single event (and even still feels that when encouraging Touma, thinking that to get resuls he may have to sacrifice his friends) and lump all humans together with Hayato and the ones pulling the strings behind Sword of Logos to deem them as all bad in previous episode.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Then, Kamijo comes to the conclusion that Fukamiya didn’t just go crazy, he was made crazy… by the Sword of Logos. Somehow, someone in the organization was the REAL traitor, and Kamijo needed to become Calibur (?) in order to destroy the Sword of Logos (??) by allying with the despotic Megid (???) so that they all could end all life on Earth (????) which would also give Kamijo the secret of the traitor inside the Sword of Logos. Kamijo decided that any sacrifice – including literal sacrifices, like the one Fukamiya made of Luna, which Kamijo found so abhorrent that he needed to murder Fukamiya – were totally okay, as long as they were in the name of rooting out corruption.

The point of this was actually to show that the Sword of Logos aren't all benevolent as it appears, perhaps similar to how some people when little may think that factions meant to serve people like police force, military, or government are all good, but actually no like corrupt cops for example. But I do think that, though the point is actually pretty clear that the Sword of Logos became corrupt and lost its ways, Kamijo's actions are still vague as hell like, what helps him to expose the corruption behind Sword of Logos honestly in all the atrocity and ruthlessness he did (other than how Kamijo's a dangerous villain by accumulating all those experiences). Perhaps like before for what I said, more is still needed to be revealed for Kamijo, and he was literally backstabbed by Desast before that, all Kamijo did was the being power-hungry part, as if power alone will be enough to expose social problem. It's not enough to make it only about the Sword of Logos setup, but I just feel that Saber didn't really care about Kamijo's writing and only care more about establishing a premise.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The rest of it was good, though! I liked all of the Mei and Sword of Logos stuff! Up until the Book Club saw their master plan disintegrating and went NBD and wandered off! That was kind of disappointing as a viewer!

I’m very scared for the future of this show, you guys!

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PROMISE IS A PENDULUM

Unfortunately Saber does have a reputation as a mediocre Kamen Rider show by the fanbase, though obviously opinions can vary like those that deemed it as badly executed in the first half but improved later. Otherwise, Mei's overall character so far is someone who is a normal human but is eager to prove her worth to the Sword of Logos, but, though I obviously won't look down on her moves here like the rousing speeches, that doesn't seem to be a move that'd prove herself to some audiences - they tend to acknowledge normal human's involvement like if they're scientists who is behind the Rider's tools or keeping up with superpowered in a fight as human. Regarding your story here, I kinda think Mei is more in the wrong regarding her treatment to Touma, like other than her pushiness, I kinda feel that Touma's shortcomings would be overlooked if Mei finds Touma hot or charming.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

As far as keeping an open mind... I'm definitely always trying to? Each episode is a new chapter; a blank page. The possibilities are limitless, and I'm always rooting for this show to impress me. I hope that comes across?

Because, boy, I super hate venting about a show. It isn't fun, and it isn't cathartic. I love Kamen Rider shows, you guys. The last thing in the world I want to spend a night doing is complaining about the ways an episode let me down, and then spend a day rehashing those feelings in a forum. That sucks! I would much rather spend a night enjoying something, being surprised by something, and then get to geek out over those things with a bunch of other fans. I genuinely dislike finding fault in these shows to level that I have with a couple three episodes of Saber.

I'd think that for open-mindedness, it should mean that talks about stuffs that don't work with you is more open when there'd be someone defending or explaining the worth of it, and not brushing it off at least immediately. It can be perhaps hard to acknowledge the worth and instead still got reminded by the faults if you won't agree with the defenses but still. Obviously, not blindly agreeing with those explanations or praises (and in reverse, not agreeing with the complaints about the faults).

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Agreed. That phrase is flawed as it doesn't consider how some villains like Evolt take pride in their reputation for villainy and would be offended by accusations of heroism or being misguided. Of course, amoral psychopathic types who rely on good publicity will gladly use that phrase to justify their behavior to others, even if they don't believe it. And some antivillains genuinely do believe it, that what they're doing is right even when everyone else says it's wrong, like the greatest kindest demon king Oma Zi-O, Amatsu Gai and Bacht here. In those cases, they're so deep in their ways, or insane, that they become resistant to the idea that they've gone too far.

For the 'people' I mentioned there, I refer to the irl audiences who watches the show and make up the fanbase. There are villains who do justify like that, but the audiences buy those words like gospel... Your examples of anti-villains (except maybe Bacht) are not examples of those though, they're among most depraved villains in the entire franchise (Gai would be if they didn't shoehorn redemption for him), Gai is the "amoral psychopathic (though more like sociopathic) types who rely on good publicity" type, and though Ohma Zi-O parted amicably with his past self, he had tried to corrupt him (like Daguva) to see which timeline his past-self would destroy and how he would go on about it, his action didn't stop in making his world a living hell. It's not righteous justifcation alone that makes an anti-villain, it can be just ways to escape responsibility and get free pass or freedom.