[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Layton13

Been a bit...

But I'll just say one thing: I love this arc! It is exactly what all other Rider Wars were lacking for me, characters you want to succeed pitted against each other. These are all unmistakably heroes, maybe minus Ren, but their morals force them into conflict.

And lastly, this is where I went from enjoying Touma to adoring him. The way he drags his beaten and bloodied ass to the battlefield to save a life. The determination, the fire, the sheer heroism is just impressive and feels so damn earned.

Ren is a good guy, but yeah he's the one not clear-cut good and the morally grey one, he's anti-heroic. He performs the but has unheroic traits in how he's a bratty social darwinist who fights primarily to show off his power instead of protecting, and had no qualms creating infighting between the group for that like Touma.

It's true that it really displays Touma's heroism, but I'd say, the heroic part of Touma there is him being hellbent to help someone he doesn't really know in the Imoto sisters, and his vow to keep his promise. The determination part is something that only a means to the end, just like other assets that can be a help in doing good like power or intelligence. Villains can be the one who is determined too to reach their goals no matter what, like the extremely persistent ones who won't go down no matter what (similar to Touma dragging his ass to battlefield).

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 23 - “AND SO IT RAMPAGES, THE HAND OF DESTRUCTION”

It’s especially nice to have a berserk form debut at this point in the story, because it sort of accidentally proves the Sword of Logos’s alleged point? Touma had been on a hot streak, convincing wary Swordsmen to join his cause, and generally having all of his claims regarding Megid schemes to be accurate. The momentum had swung in his direction, and it seemed inevitable that we’d be left with only an anxious Rintaro and a deranged Ren to stand in the way of Touma’s ultimate victory over the forces of evil.

So it seems that Ren only appreciates power in certain people, like himself and perhaps Kento. Touma collecting power like this wouldn't like, make him side with the powerful Touma (well saying this as first time viewer), as he consistently had a bone to pick with Touma. There's more of the Primitive Dragon, but can't say that obviously. There's a different experience for the viewer to view empathetic hero becoming animalistic in rage, but, it's not Touma going off the deep end like Aruto before, it's the power doing its job by influencing the wielder - so perhaps there's nothing wrong with Touma as a person at this point, though obviously this can be something exploited by Reika to turn the swordsmen against each other, instead of how perhaps someone clear-headed will try to get Touma to explain more about Megid.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Until, basically, the Sword of Logos was right: Touma collects power too easily, and he doesn’t understand the consequences. He races ahead of Daishinji, he follows unknown dudes, he gets into a quarry fight with Storious that might’ve ended up killing him. Touma’s… he acts rashly, emotionally. He’s a guy that will never stop charging into a fight if he thinks it’ll help someone. But that same recklessness that all the heroes swooned over last episode becomes a critical flaw this time. He’s unlocked a power he can’t control, and it’s made him maybe a bigger threat than the Book Club or the SoL traitor combined.

Being reckless to charge into action to help someone is a trait possessed by many of the main Riders to display how heroic they're. While it's true, gotta say that being reckless isn't a mandatory requirement to be heroic - nothing wrong to stop for a while to think twice. I think there's a difference between Touma and Kamijo that, it seems that due to how they're going on different path as Saber (albeit Kamijo became Calibur), Kamijo.... didn't actually collect power at least as Saber before? Like he was seen only using its base form. Similar to Riku (Yuusuke's predecessor) as Kuuga. It's not having power that corrupts him, but he didn't have power yet got tainted by his pursuit of power (which means, not having it yet). Touma seemingly had already gotten more powerful as Saber in his new forms, but so far he's still steadfast in saving people. Daishinji of all people should be the one who tries to inspect the gimmick.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The rest of the episode was fun and solid, even if the middle third leaned real heavy on Pay Attention You Will Be Asked About This Later stuff. (Master Logos! The unnamed assistant! Why Storious was let into the vault!) It’s intriguing, but I’m not the viewer who’s going to try and connect a variety of dots. That’s not where my passion is with these shows.

Daishinji thinks going to Master Logos is a terrible idea while Touma and Yuri thinks it's great, but I'd think it's worth trying too, as it's unknown if this is a case of more reasonable superior compared to the prickly assistant, thus Master Logos, in the best case scenario, can be the one to convince Reika to stop her shit-stirring. Though Reika had noticed the trespassers when they acted on the plan. Storious seemingly has his own agenda and can put him at odds with Legeiel and Zooous, doesn't mean redemption though.