[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

Neon didn't even try to use long-range attacks, and Nadge defeated the girls with a non-powerful punch. So in this case it's just saving on special effects and indulging the plot. If the girls hadn't lost, Keiwa wouldn't have had to become a hero, and Nadge would have been an unequivocal nasty villain.

Regardless of Na-Go, Hakubi would inevitably lose because she's a newcomer against a DGP finalist, and that's the primary reason of why Keiwa arrived as Tycoon again, his (inexperienced) sister. Though I thought Nadge delivered a powerful punch to Na-Go against that tree when she tries to shield Hakubi? And Nadge is nasty regardless if Keiwa arrived or not, the bad outcome not happening doesn't negate his attempts (only got foiled, not that he reined himself).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

But given what was revealed in episode 32, it's more like you're breaking someone else's toy to fix your toy. And this is not at all so harmless and commendable.

Maybe I can be wrong on this, but I felt that the sacrificed people's lives and happiness takes the ones who have already died in the past, far before the current Riders' joining or even their birth, already converted into fuel ready for further needs, which current Riders can't do anything about it, rather than the current people outside of those directly involved in the DGP/DR, of which Riders can try to save the lives of the civilians or other Riders to circumvent that, though the Goddess can take away the memories after someone wins. As that wish is made before the knowledge, yeah it may unwittingly cause bad outcome, but it often happens in Kamen Rider series due to its nature of the power coming from evil, and Riders being made as pawns in someone's schemes.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Isn't it better to brave despair than to live without hope? Even if Neon dropped off the face of the planet, her fans may despair, but they would eventually move on and they would still be able to live gratefully for the fond memories of the content that inspired them to become better people. Like you said, what Neon wants to do is functionally the same as what Kousei did to Irumi, despite the difference in motivation. She wants to spare her fans, but she hasn't really thought about what they want. Her fans are actively invested in Neon trying to make a better life for herself, so I think Neon is seriously underestimating how much they care about her. She's not just a content creator to them and if they were watching the Desire Royale, they'd be screaming at her to make her realize that.

Guess yeah, as you said, she perhaps underestimated how much the fans care about her, given that she feels unloved and perhaps doesn't really know how a true love feels like. And other than Kousei (though he didn't affect Irumi negatively, only their differences in "raising" Neon), ironically she didn't take her own advice to Kyuun to let her remember the truth, trying to also make her fans superficially happy as she departs. Albeit I'm not fully certain if her fans got better lives due to her, as idolizing an influencer can make one too obsessed and have their lives hold back due to "wasting time" following her content or such. Though, regarding brave despair, that feels like what Kekera pulls (or in general, any bad deeds when the victim can bounce back), I don't want for that to be used to validate Kekera's actions here, of which it seems to be his belief to get his ideal hero stronger and sharper, put them through misery, and prolong bad deeds to other for that and developing.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

What Mesnick said. There are way too many downsides to Keiwa's desire. The world's population would become bloated. DGP would continue to endanger lives and deprive the losers of their desires. Sueru would have management back under control, allowing him to undo all of Ace's work and probably turn Tsumuri in to another obedient statue for good measure. DGP's influence in the timeline is so vast that it's basically impossible to undo all the harm to their victims and even trying would enable them to take more victims. Instead of trying to save those who have already died, Keiwa should focus on stopping DGP from doing it to anybody else. That's the closest thing to world peace he's ever going to get.

I agree on how Keiwa's wish won't solve everything like how the DGP can continue their cycle (regarding on how some people condemn all other Riders' wishes except him as he uses that for others), but as I said before, I'd like for a mutual solution to fix the unfair system. Like, rather than just telling people to move on while the DGP is destroyed, I think there can be mutual goal of stopping the DGP from endangering others, freeing Mitsume, and have her atone for DGP's sins with for example, but not limited to, Keiwa's wish (without forcing her though), as Mitsume's power isn't a part of the DGP, but what the DGP needs. I think it can happen, thus Keiwa is currently being unreasonable to think only winning the DR can have that happen. I know that the population can become more bloated, but I'd think they still have rights to continue living (after having theirs taken away in untimely manner).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

No, I won't condemn them or anything like that. I won't support them either, but I still respect their right to fight and risk their lives for their desires. Ace is kind of in a similar position to Shinji here, where he's fighting to stop the DGP, but he knows it's wrong to begrudge others for fighting to perpetuate it. After all, Ace's desire isn't entirely selfless, he's trying to save his mother, so it's personal for him. The only ones I will condemn here are the DGP management for creating the stage for this conflict. Neon and Keiwa are misguided, but they are also victims of DGP who want justice, like Ace and Michinaga.

To be specific, by condemning, I hope that they won't be considered "redeemed" or such after learning better and on Ace's side again later. Like how Hiromi isn't "redeemed" for leaving Fenix after working in it without knowing its true nature before. I'd also lean towards fighting the DGP itself (and don't like how now Girori can get some free pass for his grudge to Ace being "reasonable" when he wants to preserve those secrets and let the DGP continue), just that I wouldn't want for those fighting against the DGP to be viewed as inherently right and can do no wrong as long as it harms the DGP (including "villain has a point" excuse for Michinaga). Though I'd also say, even wishing the DGP gone alone, like Colus in Battle Royale movie, won't guarantee Mitsume's freedom or the end of this horror, because exact words can apply, where while the DGP is finished, Sueru can continue with Desire Royale instead and still held Mitsume captive as Goddess of Creation for DR.