[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Kekera has finally registered as a scoundrel and, it seems, may well take away the title of the most cruel supporter from Beroba.

Kekera is a scoundrel, but eh, no one in this series is worse than Beroba (perhaps not even the likes of Niram, at least for what's shown now, the DGP may be the perpetrator, but those opposing perpetrators can be even worse). Kekera only did something cruel once so far in this one attempt to get Keiwa "stronger", while otherwise is a mentor that is quite harsh and controlling, but Beroba does that all the time. Kekera is just similar to other non-Beroba supporters of not comprehending current era people's lives and view them as sources of entertainment, like early Ziin, though he's helpful to Ace, he's using the chaos around Geats went through as something to watch and enjoy, including when Buffa attacks him as glorious rivalry, even though it'd indirectly hinder the people around them too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I definitely won't forget about the JPG civilian deaths this time! Tsumuri and Beroba brought back Ace and Keiwa respectively, but as long as those civilians stay dead, then Michinaga can still be held culpable for that. However, only the DGP and killed Riders themselves should be help culpable for Rider deaths, as Michinaga understands that DGP is a competitive game and thus he's not obliged to help out other Riders or give them eulogies. There's also his own acknowledgement to Beroba that he doesn't claim to be better than the other Riders, since he still chose to sacrifice people's desires and lives, even if that was for the sake of a world where those sacrifices no longer happen. If being lame at art is a crime though, he's totally guilty of that as well.

Would be long for this.

Yeah, what happens to nameless extras shouldn't be overlooked, or let alone dismissed as who cares if they're killed nobody does, not only the named characters. Though for civilians I'm bringing up more than the Heaven and Hell game (and he knows they're being used as sacrifices for JGP winner, and at worst, with the wish reveal, good can't be measured by statistics?); he has no problem helping to run the JGP, so long as he can damage the Riders and the DGP, the damage done to public and civilians be damned, at least working on setting the lightning turrets in the city. It'd be like opening a fire to a target without caring for any of the misfire or putting a bomb to certain place without caring of who got caught in the radius.

While it's indirect, it's what cemented Daichi as an evil Rider to me (where before he seemed as merely an asshole) in him joining the Jamato crew and enjoying seeing them terrorize civilians (while Michinaga is callous about it, compared to their maliciousness). Even with his standards, he doesn't step up to actually stop the shitty things Beroba did. He too discouraged saving civilians (which actually matters more since the reveal of how the wishes are made) due to accusing those who do as doing it for points, and also knowingly took Sae's Zombie even though her family is targeted by the DGP which can result in potential failure of those being saved with weaker stuff. I think though Michinaga doesn't deny Beroba claiming he's a hypocrite like the Riders he hates, he can still try to take the moral high ground, like deflecting blames to anyone else but him. And the part of Riders not knowing how the DGP work shouldn't be used to demonize them regarding sacrificing people's lives and desires part.

But regarding the part where Keiwa and Ace got murdered, I kinda dislike on how, it's still treated as DGP stuff? Not everything related to the Rider stuff is DGP. That time, it's solely the core trio going on protecting people by their own volition without a promise of reward (as pointed out in-series), because it's not required in the JGP (just that you're marked as bigger targets). If you're still arguing cause and effect for cases in putting your lives on line for doing something as a typical Kamen Rider would, then what should they do at this case, letting JGP be? Seems that this DGP assumption is what makes these actions overlooked (to just be assume those as competitively palying as usual), or perhaps also to make skeptical assumptions that this is done just to continue picking off from what's left in the DGP, but I don't think that something like Keiwa and Neon helping people patch up the festival or Ace taking his time to take care of Shouta and his wants is any related to getting the Vision Drivers back.

Regarding the excuse of it being a competitive game, would this technically also absolve the blames from Riders like Kanato, Morio, Daichi, the Riders who left Toru for dead themselves? And regarding competitive game kind, I wouldn't like for that to be used to allow anyone on it to be allowed to freely doing anything in the name of winning or game theory (which is something you said yourself). And wouldn't want for Michinaga to get double standards regarding this only because he has a point and is the one who deals with the problem or such. This also applies in real life of people encouraging moves that endangered other contestants in a competitive sport, especially if it comes from a legendary winner. Technically, life as a whole is also competition with others (with people encouraging cruelty as they think it's what gets people ahead). I wish that people would acknowledge the concept of healthy competition more, viewing others as "opponents", not "enemy", to try strive for winning without turning the environment into a cruel dog-eat-dog one, or trying to make it better, like how the DGP (and also DR perhaps) doesn't require for others to die for winning, unlike Rider War.

And actually, I'd think it's a more definitive proof of someone being a good person, if they're doing kind actions in the situations they don't have to be. So yeah, I'd value actions done outside of obligations more. Which'd be why I think those having noble occupations shouldn't be immediately elevated as more heroic than those who doesn't. Not that I would be skeptical for people like for example, Shotaro (a paid private detective), but I did discuss about it elsewhere to help differentiate better between those who put their heart and soul into doing the right thing, even the little things of the job, or those who just do the bare minimum and don't even bother to be professional about it (e.g. "all that matters is catching the criminal") - the latter is what's limited to obligation only. Saving the civilians in the DGP gets the question mark about them doing it for ulterior motives as DGP encourages it for points, but I think helping any fellow rival Riders, like what people like Keiwa or Neon did, would be what cements those as genuinely good for me (or definitive good side in someone), because as you said, there's no obligation for it. In Ryuki, Shinji says protecting people also means protecting the Riders as well.