[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I think peace and happiness are slightly different. You could say Neon was peaceful when she lost her Kirakira and started obeying Irumi, but she wasn't happy, as she later told Kyuun to let her remember everything if it happened again. Like, what does peace mean for someone like Beroba, who can only be happy if others are suffering? Peace opposes sadism, yet sadism is necessary for happiness, as part of human nature. Ace is simply trying to keep the world safe from Jyamatos so people can find their own happiness and he's only using his own Kirakira for power. This would satisfy Michinaga, but it's probably not enough for Keiwa, who demands justice for the dead, something that would require a lot more Kirakira.

Though in recent episodes, Keiwa does vouch for everyone's happiness to reject any sacrifices revolving how DGP works (which'd mean not viewing good in statistics), and also convincing Neon to stay and make sure that the world can accomodate everyone's happiness including a fake human. Dunno if this'd sound spiteful to you regarding Michinaga talk, or just pointing out about the DGP not being the only problem (though obviously it's a big one), perhaps Michinaga can discover that even by having the Rider powers nonexistent, the humans' desire and free will means that as long as people are free to choose, someone will choose to do evil, and there will always be someone else who still suffer from their freely taken evil actions, likely will cook up another extremist plan to "end conflict".

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

There's a rumor that Neon is going to get a new Core ID, which makes me wonder if Na-Go's Core ID is permadead, like the Holy Wing Vistamp. I guess Hakubi won't be coming back anytime soon, but good to see that Sara is continuing to give support for Neon's happiness, now that disappearing is no longer an option. She still has an important role as the heart and being a Rider or not doesn't change that.

I'd wanna ask why do you praise Sara's support to Neon here, but consider Keiwa and Neon helping her as merely doing it for personal connection? O̶t̶h̶e̶r̶w̶i̶s̶e̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶N̶e̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶S̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶i̶r̶l̶-̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶R̶i̶n̶t̶a̶r̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶M̶e̶i̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶?̶

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

That's true, peace is such an abstract concept, like a common good, compared to individual happiness determined by people's desires. Kanato's desire for human extinction can also be called world peace, in a twisted way. It depends whether a person seeks peace by any means necessary, or only as a means to obtaining happiness. I think that's why Keiwa decided to change his desire, as world peace isn't something you wish for, but something each person can contribute to through acts of kindness. But only DGP can bring back dead.

Yeah, Kanato's deisre can technically achieve peace, because conflicts'd be always present among any living beings. Which'd be why it's not only the person's intentions that are important, wanting world peace doesn't necessarily make someone good (even though perhaps there'd be those who still praise the extremist ones wanting that compared to the other Riders' desire they all condemn because it's for personal gain), but Keiwa's a good person (doesn't mean he's inculpable though, as like his self-righteous move in ep. 8) because he actively puts into practice of helping others including rival Riders and avoiding doing bad things to them, at least directly.

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Originally Posted by Blade Fang

Daichi really reminds me of Kabuto from Naruto series

Y̶e̶a̶h̶ ̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶"̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶n̶a̶b̶e̶"̶.̶ ̶G̶u̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶n̶i̶p̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶l̶l̶e̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶e̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶A̶c̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶K̶a̶m̶e̶n̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶,̶ ̶D̶a̶i̶c̶h̶i̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶N̶a̶r̶u̶t̶o̶'̶s̶ ̶K̶a̶b̶u̶t̶o̶.̶

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Originally Posted by Deepsea

TBH, I think Keiwa might be a jymato. I don't think he realizes it, but the fact he was able to strike buffa, and just the weirdness after his revival has made me formulate the theory.

There'd be difference between actually affecting or harming someone with the strikes vs just pushing something with your force - the latter can be done against even something unbreakable depending on how much it weighs.

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

And, even if PunkJack looms in the background, we have to admit that the fifth rider in the show is still Nudge, because he has more screen time.

We have to not depend on personal feelings to decide characters' role. It's something completely subjective and varied regarding which characters feel more standout, impactful, important, fun, etc. (screentime can be used for these stuff too, though not only it) which is what some people often use to measure main characters or more important ones (which seems to be just asserting personal favorites). And because protagonists are often not people's favorite, it can happen for outright primary Riders too, like for example, claiming Fuwa's the main Rider instead of Aruto - seems obvious that this is just imposing their favorites they're the most invested with as the main only because you don't care about actual one, those shouldn't be validated.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Ryuki, since Zolda came before Ouja but Ouja has more Monsters and recently the third Survive Card.

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

In this case, everything is clear enough for me. During the show itself, Zolda was considered tertiary, but after, due to the charisma of the character and the willingness of the actor to return, Ouja took his place. By the way, the same thing happens with Genm, only much faster and more brazenly. As for the Asakura monster trio, given that even Ryuki and Knight didn't get any extra pets, it's not a coolness of the character, but an attempt to make him an even more dangerous and terrifying villain.

Thought Kitaoka (with Goro too) seems to be the only other universally well-received character other than Asakura in that show. And plot reason seems to be the explanation to not have him return (while the actor has other explanation iirc, but even then the actors of main Riders Shotaro and Philip are difficult to return), succumbing to his cancer. Ouja's personal Rider stuff is spare Contract Cards (like Ryuki and Knight having Survive, Gai having Confine, Raia having Copy, etc.), but it's necessary because both Ryuki and Knight schools Ouja easily as Survive, he gotta keep up with at least making his monster on par with Survive ones (in the Attack Power of Genocider to Dragranzer & Darkraider).

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

Personally, I judge a tertiary rider compared to Gills. That is, the tertiary is the one who suffers the most for the entire show. In this regard, in the Geats, it is without a doubt Na-Go, who, in my opinion, cries most then all female riders before her.

And characterization has no relation to their story role, even though it's true Na-Go is the tertiary. The franchise's formula may have certain characters often occupy that role, but they (or anyone else) can perform different things for that character role too if they want. Michinaga has a characterization similar to many previous secondaries of being brutish thug , same logic applies to Neon here for "suffers the most" (guess for OOO, the primary seems clearly the one suffering the most, and even then, perhaps there are lots of other tertiary that doesn't suffer the most, at least in comparison to main characters like Mihara, Taiga, Woz, Yua, Sakura).

Otherwise, seems that from how you're talking about the "cries" here, you're an actual example of those thinking that, versatility aside, characters are only okay to display a breakdown, vulnerability, etc. if they have "proven" themselves to be a "bonafide badass" (read: those being grumpy, antisocial, aggressive, and other cold or outright toxic masculine traits depicted as tough) of which it'd be praised as humanizing instead for them. Gotta stop encouraging emotional suppression/avoidance of vulnerability and telling people not to cry, be vulnerable (except for those normally acting like stereotypical men, and those characters I refer are often given occassional vulnerable moments, just the double standard of only those being able to without being shamed), and project a rather inauthentic image, lest those get harassed and shamed. It's not what being emotionally healthy actually is and it can't be suppressed forever, also strong doesn't only come in one mold, there's no one way to be strong.

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Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

The classification of tertiary doesn't really hold much ground beyond trying to decide which character has marginally more importance to the plot. Often times, such as this case, it's difficult to say. Na-Go may suffer more, but Michinaga's actions tend to directly alter the plot's trajectory.

It's also a common view that villains tend to directly alter the plot's trajectory more, in fact it can be seen as inherent (actually not always) that they're the ones who make the plot while the heroes only react. By this there can be people having takes such as "Joker is the real protagonist (or even 'the hero') of The Dark Knight" but doesn't mean they're stating the truth/fact - it's just one of those biased interpretations revolving around their favorite characters only.