[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Considering the theme of parasocial relationships in this show, I think the fans' contention over Keiwa's development might even be the outcome that Takahashi intended to happen. Some people got so attached to this character from the start, or rather, they got attached to this idealistic static image of a pitiful underdog soba-eating good guy, that they resisted the idea that he could be anything else. This is a fallacy of the viewer perspective, that viewers can project too much and get offended when the character to whom they relate doesn't live up to their expectations. I think the moral here is that characters are individuals, not only archetypes. You can't just murder anybody's family and expect them to become Kazami Shirou.

I still wonder though that Keiwa does seem to still get development later on before, where he becomes more understanding to other's wishes as he said to Girori, so I thought that can be him working up on his cynicism and bitterness inside, but what do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Not sure why they won't acknowledge the spirit of heroism in Neon though, as she's fighting for true love, which is more heroic than merely saving lives. I guess Keiwa is kind of a more realistic depiction of Kouta (who also had a big sister), where Ace, Neon, Michinaga and Tsumuri actually call him out, instead of giving him the Hero's License to get away with some bad deeds.

Funny, that we acknowledge Neon's for opposite reasons, you do it because of the difference of her reason of fighting to Keiwa's, while I do it because I see that she often performs similar actions as Keiwa - when Keiwa helps someone, most of the time she'd do the same as well. Seems that because ofc, her desire is for herself, and as what said in Die's Revice post, people seem to want endless hardship and suffering for the heroes and measure how heroic are by how much of those they get (like Kekera), thus they if they want to help themselves (of which Neon's wish is personal), or even just self-preservance, they got bashed.

Seems that any dream for themselves (and sure you define selfish as anything done for yourself, but those people are using selfish term as in, they're shitty people) are seen as greed, no matter what, and by the require of suffering, they want heroes to "not be tempted by greed" and always give up anything they have or they can have like said wish for others, or at least for family, they have to always choose sacrifice over anything else (of which using a wish for others would be seen as a sacrifice for potential benefit).

Also seems that many people has either/or mindset, where you can only be one thing or the other, can't be both, like you can only care about your dreams OR being good to others, when you can be both - do good deeds outside of main goal - and if someone has personal main goal, anything good they do is twisted as only done for ulterior motives (like you know who), or either ignore the moments (not their big character moment or such). Heroes are those who have positive qualities and regularly do good to others, and sacrifice is only one kind of good deed not only one - and felt like there can be double standard if Ittetsu got praised for this, while Neon's got perhaps overlooked or twisted, Ittetsu's wish is also for personal.

It seems that anything Rider-related on Geats is treated as DGP game (other than likely Ace's DGP now, and you did too..), thus it may be also seen as another ulterior motive even though... the show displays Chirami being baffled over Keiwa and Neon urging to help people against JGP without rewards (and Ace pointing out that to them as well) to emphasize that it's the Riders' own will to fight.

We also know that protecting lives shouldn't be the end, but the ultimate good is protecting happiness, but many people seem to downplay and diminish bad deeds if it's not murder because people can bounce back from it, lacking sympathy for people's problem in life overall, unless it's death as it can't be reversed (unless depends on the show's setting), thus those who save lives, or even villains not killing anyone, can be glorified as saints or never did anything wrong.

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Originally Posted by JusticeMagnum

The second example doesn't make much sense, why would Ace immediately make the assumption that the Goddess is his mother? Until the end of the JGP the only thing the main trio know about the Goddess is that she's a thing & that the DGP uses her to grant wish, nothing else. For all Ace knows his mother could've used the Goddess to wish for him to reincarnate over and over, and possibly wished for herself to never be found. His mother could've also a been running or be very high management for the DGP, for him to immediately assume the Goddess IS his mother would be complete leap in logic considering how little information he has to go off of.

Also Ace didn't that much about the inner workings of the DGP, the only things he knew very well was how to play the game, the rules, and what happens to players when they lose (memory/desire loss & unable to return if they die, he did not know players turned into Jamato). He's been shown to not know/be caught off guard by things such as not knowing that the Gamemaster was a Rider, he had a hunch about the DGP having an audience but didn't know for sure, he didn't know how the DGP selected players, and he didn't know how the DGP granted wishes.

Yeah not everything is just the show's fault, sometimes it can be just the real life audience's too.... Someone isn't inherently right because they post criticism or outright hate to a show and fight against bandwagon or something, negative bias is also a thing, but there can be mistakes that some audience had as well, not only the show having plot armor or such, like how audiences should learn about dramatic irony - they can not know as much as the real life audiences do and that there can be internal reveals.