[Zolda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

It's a common depiction of time travel in fiction, but there are no official mechanics of how time travel works. Just because it doesn't work the way you expect it in the most common form of its depiction, doesn't mean that you can impose what you think how it should work. The most common interpretation like Grandfather's Paradox is just still a mechanic in certain in-universe story written as fiction.

Geats' writers: "Dear viewers. We're actually writing a story about time travel, but we'll never show it, tell it, or even hint at it. Instead, what we'll show, tell, and hint at is a story about virtual world. We've even provided guide pages on our website that says that our story is about virtual world. But we're actually writing a story about time travel. So, if your eyes, ears, and mind tell you that our story is about virtual world, don't believe them. Deny them. They're deceiving you. Our story is actually a story about time travel. Sincerely, Yuuya Takahashi & the writing team."

Me: "Yeah, riiight..." :V

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Why do you really insist that those who aren't naturally born shouldn't be seen as equal? You know that the people who have that view are typically portrayed as at best assholes in those shows, the ones who would discriminate, prejudiced, and bigoted to what's "real" living being or not. And as above, tell me you haven't been paying attention without you telling me you haven't been paying attention. because future people are also virtual humans, whose life got designed and predetermined from their beginning to the end. It's how Kyuun relates to Neon.

Future humans? More like real-world, REAL flesh-and-blood humans, although hyper-designed/hyper-engineered. Probably also robotically-enhanced. Virtual humans = The Sims characters = programs = Ace/Neon/Kousei/etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Having only one life isn't the only reason to cherish it. You do your best as well as being mindful about other's lives because it's the right thing to do. Revival being possible is still not an excuse to go off on a murdering spree. And as said above, Geats isn't the only fiction piece of media or KR series that has revival from the dead being something possible smh, just sounds like you gotta expose yourself to more media.

Of course it's not the only reason. Duh. There are several other reasons as well. It's definitely the FIRST reason.

Revival is not my problem with Geats. My problem with Geats is REPEATED revival. It just dilutes death and the value of life. You die once, you're a hero. You die twice, you're a commodity. You die thrice, you're a clown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

This just sounds like if you've never touched upon Kamen Rider series before. You know that many of the protagonists are those who have that kind of goal right? And many are also those who are more outright good from the beginning than Ace. And what if the world is crappy? Just because someone is aware of how bad life is and how mean people are doesn't mean they can't fight for the right anyway. And stop actually curbing their attempts to do so as something delusional or such... people like this would be the ones who normalize and maintain the cruelty of the world.

Heroic Kamen Riders usually fight against destructive forces to restore freedom to humanity, NOT to enforce happiness to people, NOT to be a moralistic busybody like Ace. Heroic Kamen Riders fight and sacrifice their lives to restore peace, so that everyone can fight for their own lives and overcome the challenges of their lives with their own strength. Heroic Kamen Riders fight so that people can fight.

What Ace is doing is virtually moral policing. Moral policing, as demonstrated by history, always results in the destruction of freedom. It's ironic how Kamen Riders usually fight to restore freedom, yet Ace's moral policing destroys freedom. What Ace is doing is what a naive kid will do when he's given the power of God: He will make right everything, from big matters to small matters. It only reeks naivety and pettiness. It's peak cringe. Even protagonists people consider naive like Gentaro Kisaragi or Shinji Kido don't have that kind of petty mindset.

Life is give and take. Sometimes, there are people who prefer taking more than giving. Humanity has evolved and has already developed several ways to deal with such people. Society already has its laws. Humanity doesn't need a Godly moralistic busybody like Ace, who turned out to be an even bigger busybody than Ikki Igarashi ever was. People are selfish. Yet, when combined, the destructive impact of their selfish desires cancel each other and result in something good. It's just a cold, hard fact of life. If I fail to realize that fact then I fail as an adult.

If some people choose to live their lives in accordance with such a naive, shallow, petty philosophy, then go ahead. It's their choice. Just don't be surprised when reality comes knocking on their door and give them a very rude awakening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yeah, it's their lives, the only lives they've ever known. How would you act if you lived in such a world? Would you just resign to fake existence bereft of meaning? That would be nihilism. The whole point of the Saboten Jyamato finale was Ace learning from Michinaga the value of determination against a losing scenario, which sounds like the opposite of nihilism to me. Death is a destination, but life is a journey. If you're set on meeting your destination by any means necessary, then your journey will suck.

Determination means something if you have a chance, even if that chance is infinitesimally small, like 0.00000000001%. But, what if your chance is 0%, like in Ace's world? Not infinitesimally small, but 0%. Perfect 0%. Sueru is literally God that can manipulate every aspect of Ace's world without exception. A virtual human fighting Sueru/real human is like a Sims character fighting a Sims player. It's wishing for the impossible. If Sueru merely observes Ace's world like we observe an aquarium, then it wouldn't be a problem. But if Sueru meddles in Ace's world and manipulates their lives, then it's game over for them. Sueru's meddling is basically a torture to them.

Death is the final destination, and life is a journey. But if their deaths and their lives can be manipulated by a higher power, then what's left for them? The nihilism lies not only in what they can do, but also in who/what can control their world.

It basically boils down to freedom. There are 2 kinds of freedom: freedom for something, and freedom from something. The inhabitants of Ace's world only have freedom for something, but not freedom from something, that is, freedom from manipulation by Sueru. Heck, Sueru can probably even manipulate their decision, like when he manipulated Jitt. That would make them mere intelligent marionettes. That would make it even more nihilistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

From our limited perspective, sure. But looking in a hypothetical way, if time travel is influencing our world, we wouldn't know about it, since our memories would've been altered. How can any of us truly understand reality when we're only looking from the inside out?

That's precisely my point. Our universe might be a simulation as well, but so far, outside information has never had any contact with our universe, and vice versa. Anything from the outside of our universe (if it does exist) has no ability to communicate nor influence our universe, and vice versa. In other words: Our universe and anything outside it are perfectly separated. Our universe and anything outside it are two separate, independent, self-contained existences. So, even if our universe is indeed a simulation, we will never know that fact because we'll never have anything to compare it with. The truth may actually exist out there, but we'll never know. Our universe might be the most perfect deception.

Now, compare it to Ace's universe. His universe can be influenced by information from the outside, and even manipulated, and the inhabitants know it. The inhabitants know that they're being toyed with by Gods (DGP/Sueru/people from the real world). They know that their reality can be manipulated. They know that their lives and deaths are just dreams. They know that they've probably died 100 times during the previous DGP and brought back to life to die 100 times again. Their universe and Sueru's universe is not separated anymore. Their perspective is not limited anymore because they've received information from the outside of their universe. They've known the reality, the truth: That their universe, lives, and everything inside it are not real.

If a God wants to manipulate my life, then sure. He's God. He can do anything he likes. But please, keep it a secret from me and make sure that I never know that fact. Knowing that my life is not real and or manipulated only creates unnecessary suffering for me. It's like slaughtering an animal with a blunt knife. This unnecessary suffering is why I concluded that Ace's world is utterly nihilistic.

That's why I said that one of the most ethical ways of dealing with this kind of simulation is by leaving it alone, or by just shutting it down (like the premise of The Thirteenth Floor). If Geats wants to be rational and consistent with its internal logic, then Sueru should've simply reset or shut down the simulation program containing Ace's world, and Ace and all its inhabitants would've never noticed. The show named Kamen Rider Geats would never exist. But, then again, expecting logical consistency from Geats is like waiting for an apple to fall... Under a mango tree.