[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

No no, it's good to disagree! I think that for a lot of fans Geats resonated with them and it's good to hear why. I do agree that there are certainly toxic fans who just want to watch the world burn, which is likely what triggered Takahashi to write this way.

I have my gripes with Geats as well for personal reason, where the final arc is cramped due to screentime. Though I find closure in how it's caused by Takebe's decision to keep Sara for a while that halts the middle and Keiwa's dark arc which perhaps can give less room for anything else. I also won't defend all reasons of why Geats resonated with people - I won't agree with the reason like it's dark (perhaps leading "realistic" or "complex cast"), cuz being light-toned or dark doesn't determine quality, and I won't like the view of characters having to be terrible to be "complex", same for Gaim's reason.

I'd say it'd be ok for me as long as you won't dismiss any explanations given to you as them only being a sheep who just goes with the flow, or being overthinking in defending things due to personal bias (e.g. my explanation of Ace's past lives or finite happiness explanation - I hate double standards), or even going as far to spite them for explaining it or liking the series.

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Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

Likewise I hope it is clear why stuff I feel the way I do about some things the show did. For example I think several rounds of the game has low impact for me because I found the character growth for our mains relatively lacking and they felt like they could be incorporated into other parts of the show better. Similarly, I hope you can see how the audience criticisms can feel like they cast too wide of a net and come across like Takahashi bashing on Rider fans in general, since the show doesn't really show much in the way of normal DGP fans besides allusions that the show used to be different in the past.

Continuing for above, I guess I just wanna make sure that, even if the audience knows it from the start, for the cast, the DGP just plays like other Rider organizations outside of "game" terms thrown around, and that yeah, growth being lacking would be something subjective and personal taste. I guess I do want for the irl audience to be called out sometimes, particularly as they deflect any criticisms thrown to them (in general anyone anonymous on internet), though I'd like to hear another way from you to do that while not doing it in what you think as bashing on Rider fans. The DGP being different is something onscreen as well not only past, where the DGP goes from a world saving competition to a sadist show designed to only maximize suffering, courtesy of Suel and the VIPs. The JGP was a polar opposite to DGP too in every way.

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

Neon was probably the one that felt the most compelling to me, but it also felt like she completely stagnated after her backstory reveal and she got hit hard by the same "silly girl, effectiveness is for boys" stick that bludgeoned Yua to irrelevancy in Zero-One.

I guess I can see you thinking this if you're one of those who like Sakura's focus that can be even considered spotlight-stealing. I do think that she feels weaker in DR arc, though it may can be attributed to her sacrificial moves against Sara to shield her with her body that can rather backfire, other than Keiwa and her being stuck in base forms. But I can feel that perhaps there's too high of a standard for female characters due to being disappointed with how they're handled as well, like judging with the standard of impossible image of "strong", and doing anything to maintain that impossible image like those "empowered" moves like culling any "weaknesses" including personality wise. I didn't know when you dropped, but since getting Fantasy she's competent again.

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

And then there's Keiwa, aka "we have Shinji Kido at home." I do not care for Keiwa. When the show started, I assumed he was going to be the Kagami to Ace's Tendou, but it feels a lot more like he was taking Shinji's role as the character who protested that the game was bullshit and that he just wanted to protect people. Except Shinji had a fire inside of him that made him compelling as a protagonist, while Keiwa just came off as a weenie. He sucked at Kamen Riding, sucked at changing anyone else's perspective on the DGP, and generally felt like a useless sad sack. The main reason I stopped watching the show was because I had absolutely zero interest in watching an arc where the show tried to have him go through an angsty evil phase because dear lord do I not have the patience for an evil Keiwa. I barely had patience for the good version.

I know you're the type to hate jokes like Wataru or Onari, but I'd still perhaps want for the human or vulnerable side in toku to not be dismissed or outright mocked which just comes across as bully-ish. Keiwa does get made to be the antithesis of people like Kagami (or Hiromi), the ones who are impossible to break against any kind of mind-breaking obstacles. Keiwa gets the human and ordinary person part emphasized more - he eventually gets stressed out and breaks by being put through this, not meant to shoulder the weight of the world. Kekera's actions on putting an ordinary person (including actual cruelty) through usual expectations of Kamen Rider going through so much more than an average individual could handle doesn't go as typically planned where he instead creates a grief and vengeance driven villain instead of a just true hero (with Keiwa later rejecting Kekera's teachings when he returns to good), succumbing to his latent cynicism until he grows out of it in ep. 45.

Also, "changing anyone else's perspective on the DGP"? What Keiwa learns is to tolerate other people's wishes more. Anyone has a right to achieve their dreams, and wanting personal dreams and being a good person isn't mutually exclusive. Personally don't want for the DGP to be treated similarly as Rider War, the DGP chooses all kind of humanity, not specifically bad ones like Rider War does, and thus they can vary and wouldn't like for Keiwa to be treated as all bad which'd be just negative bias and cynicism in view of humanity (albeit ofc the DGP has nasty ones like Kanato or Kirito). Another twist is that Keiwa's more altruistic sounding wish did get to his head to turn him self-righteously dismissing others' problems, and he didn't get away with it with hero license or such, he shouldn't impose his ideals on others. Particularly that the DGP (the one the cast was in until ep. 22) doesn't have you being forced to murder each other like Rider War was (with those moves being punished), just perform better.