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Redemption ark. Yes, no or only if...
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09-13-2023, 07:48 AM
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28
Sh Ranger
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
This'd be probably a wild assumption about you, but I sometimes can have thought that you'd want for all villains, of any kind, to get changed, because it can seem to me that in KR you prioritize paragons (e.g. most main Riders) changing and developing people around them for the better, and if you didn't get that, you'd blame the "supposed" paragon instead, because everyone is capable of change without exceptions. At least coming from you disagreeing with Ryuki's ending of it negating the changes happened to the Riders even if it'd revert the countless Rider War victims, but media often depicting mercy for a room of change as letting villains go, also gives a vibe of prioritizing change over the safety of people - it's worth the cost of to make them change no matter how long it is... I'd want to know more regarding redemptions you won't agree with, but other than those done in shows you dislike (Gaim, Revice) - I thought by this before you may not rank Geats above Zero-One with you listing 2 of latter's examples below.
Even when I want a character to receive a redemption arc and it actually happens, that doesn't necessarily mean I'll agree with the execution. Like, I already explained about Mutsuki and there's an even worse example with Aguilera. You're right that I appreciate the true heroes who help to change people for the better and thus expect them to honestly represent the values they preach. However, I've come to realize that sometimes there are people who the hero cannot change no matter how hard they try, as some people are okay with being villains and don't want to change. Regarding my Reiwa Rider Ranking, redemption arcs aren't the only criteria for my enjoyment of a show. Saber and Geats get a big advantage simply for not having a Work Competition arc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
The reason you'd disagree with Micchy's redemption is because of the sheer crimes he committed? (I do think that he can fit pure evil too, but I'd be actually fine if they leave them being subdued at the end of ep. 46, rather than resolution at ep. 47) Or because there'd be other reason? (I'd hope you can be objective on this, regardless of it being Gaim) Because Gai's crimes rival Micchy's in scale with practically zero positive traits (like Ryoma) to 'balance'. Gai has corporate sabotage, conspiracy, genocide, vandalism, treason, abuse, incrimination, obstruction of justice, brainwashing, torture, terrorism, and the 1843 complaints involving age spoofing, faking reasons of absence, illegal auction bidding, illicit sales, misappropriation of company finances for personal benefit, plagiarizing technology, ossession of a fake bank account, sexual/moral harassment, tax evasion, etc.
Motive is important. I know you don't put much stake in tragic backstories, but I believe they can be used to gain insight in to a person's actions and how to potentially redeem them. So, while Gai and Mitsuzane both have a ridiculously long list of crimes, I can sympathize with Gai due to seeing how he ended up like that and the moral he needed to learn from his past so that he could turn his life around. He felt pressured to live up to his father's impossible 1000% expectations and didn't realize how much he lost touch with his morality until it was too late. Now, Mitsuzane's motive, on the other hand, is Mai. He may not be the only yandere in the franchise, but even Kusaka (Happy Kaixa Day!) would draw the line at sacrificing humanity since he canonically only ever kills Orphenochs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
I wonder how'd you refer (other than Evolt fighting Killbus) to Kuroto (True Ending or Another Ending's Zombie Survival) or Masamune's (pleading for Kiriya to stop Kuroto) last seen actions. There are enough people who point out Kuroto wasn't redeemed and Daichi should be given similar treatment (he's the type to only do good for benefit by then too). The only change would be him treating the Jamatos better, and done for plot irony in Riders being now the threats and Jamatos being defenders - perhaps the equivalent can be Kuroto treating Poppy better and shielded her from an attack.
I'd refer to Kuroto as an antivillain and Masamune as a villain. While Kuroto does engage in petty behavior, like infecting Emu for sending fanmail, he was serious about saving Sakurako and helped to create the cure to revive the Bugster victims, albeit using means that were too extreme and not without consequence, as Kiriya points out that Jungo's suicide is something that Kuroto cannot undo. Masamune is much more depraved though, as he showed no remorse for deleting Saki's data as punishment and probably only sided with Kiriya out of spite for his son.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Annuga
Getting infected by Dan the Man is fucking hilarious though and I welcome it, he does seem to actively be trying to atone but everything he did feels waaaay too big to ever make up for in his lifetime.
I mean, Gai is a very young-looking 45 year-old, so you might be underestimating his longevity.
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Last edited by Sh Ranger; 09-13-2023 at
07:53 AM
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