[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I agree that what Michinaga did was undeniably bad, the guy himself agrees that he's a hypocrite in that regard but that's part of why he's so interesting to me, he does a lot of bad shit to achieve his goal but it doesn't seem like he gets any enjoyment out of it outside of wanting to wipe Ace's smug smile off his face as he could not beat him, Michinaga did what he felt was needed even though he clearly got quite a few people killed because of his actions, I think the reason he feels particularly bad about getting Sara killed because by then, he found out there was another way beyond having like, a large scale trolley problem. Personally, I would have added a scene of Michinaga breaking down after realizing just how much he screwed up and added to people's suffering just because he hadn't realized sooner that another way was possible but I'm also a sucker for "My god, what have I done?" Shit being done right lol. Fantastic writeup, I could not have written that better myself

Yeah yeah, we all know that these type of characters are interesting, just hoping that they can be liked without them getting their bad traits justified or downplayed. I do wish that said trolley problem is seen by fandom as only that character's personal thoughts, instead of viewing it as the one hard truth. Villain's words seem to be always taken in face value, people can see everything as either/or situation, that following their words the choice is only to let the biggest baddies destroy the world or let someone stop them even if they'd also murder many (and bash the 'naive' heroes for opposing them... why their plans are seen as guaranteed to succeed anyway).

Otherwise, my focus here was on the cynical worldview itself - of which said view is often viewed as being sensible, "logical", and realistic, when it can be just the cynical people being so lazy and faithless to be so used to acting a certain way, never considered another option, or never even thought another option was possible - which can mean, it's only them rationalizing their actions or proving they?re in the right (this one's just egotistic). Cynicism is a dogmatic and narrow-minded view that leans on negative bias, Michi is too lazy to consider another option and just goes for the easiest solutions while refusing to have his belief challenged for most of the series (while he acknowledged his hypocrisy, he still deflects blames thrown on him if others point it out).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Girori wanted Kamen Riders to be virtuous heroes and was upset by Geats not fitting his vision of an ideal Kamen Rider while also constantly winning which risked making his show boring, meaning he saw Geats as a threat to his business. These examples aren't very comparable

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I won't comment on Akaishi for I haven't seen Revice meaning I cannot judge it fairly at all but the Jamato are seperate from the DGP. Like, after the DGP gets dissolved, they still exist and have potential for evil. That's all Girori needs to want the typical virtuous heroes in his game

Do people actually forget that, the DGP is the one that created the Jamatos?


Do you actually believe in DGP's bogus claims of saving the world (and Girori claiming that he'd want to contribute for world peace and that he's like Mamoru Shima or Wakabayashi or such)? Just because Archimedel has his own agendas and wants/plans to rebel, doesn't mean that Archimedel wasn't a part of the DGP, DGP obviously should have someone in charge of developing them. You can create Jamatos outside of the DGP if you know how... but doesn't mean that it's always separate from DGP like Humagears to ZAIA.

Girori calls Archimedel to send Jamatos after people, then claims that the Jamato has invaded. He doesn't want to stop the Jamatos, he only wants to moderate them so that they won't be too strong to beat the Riders. He wants a display of the Riders' heroism by creating war and having the public get attacked by Jamatos. For the entertainment of the audiences (who like heroism), like many other future people, just that he's the type to want to give "good ending" for the audience, but he still treats this world and real people as plaything too. At the end by siding with Ace he also talks about the entertainment for the audience who wants the DGP back to its roots as Riders beating bad guys rather than the sadist show Suel is turning it into - though by then he assigns the DGP as the bad guys to be beaten.

The reason he wants to eliminate Ace is, to protect the DGP's secrets. Yes... the secret that the DGP creates Jamatos or that they rob people's lives and happiness to grant wishes and keep the game going (by granting more winners' wishes). Claiming Ace's wish as frivolous is his tactics to manipulate Keiwa into eliminating Ace.



Is Girori another one that got people justifying him since Chirami was appointed as GM? And only because of his pretty words of wanting to contribute for world peace or being right about something. Like above, I know that people'd like to paint villains as in the right/doing nothing wrong due as people commonly take their words at face value, or if but nah, but I'm not buying the pretty words they way, would be a hot take to the fandom but I'm exposing their insincerity.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Motive is important. I know you don't put much stake in tragic backstories, but I believe they can be used to gain insight in to a person's actions and how to potentially redeem them. So, while Gai and Mitsuzane both have a ridiculously long list of crimes, I can sympathize with Gai due to seeing how he ended up like that and the moral he needed to learn from his past so that he could turn his life around. He felt pressured to live up to his father's impossible 1000% expectations and didn't realize how much he lost touch with his morality until it was too late. Now, Mitsuzane's motive, on the other hand, is Mai. He may not be the only yandere in the franchise, but even Kusaka (Happy Kaixa Day!) would draw the line at sacrificing humanity since he canonically only ever kills Orphenochs.

Guess in that department, Micchy has similar stuff, but more setup from the beginning than Gai was. Takatora also pressured him in his academics and Yggdrasill position/role like enlisting him in elite school and forbidding "distractions" for him, which also makes him want to escape Takatora's shadow by said control. His moments with Team Gaim is his escapism, which he also has to cover due to it being viewed as distraction and lowlifes he can't associate. He'd protect said joy he felt by being with team Gaim by any means, eventually escalating to sacrifice humanity to do so to "spare" them (though Mai is above anything including other friends, he'd go after his other friends that gets in his way too). What makes him finally relent was when his schemes fail to accomplish anything and instead backfire to them, causing both Kouta and Mai's (by entrusting her to Ryoma) death, after for a while he's trying to validate his insanity while his conscience (Takatora hallucination) was practically telling him he's fucked up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I'd refer to Kuroto as an antivillain and Masamune as a villain. While Kuroto does engage in petty behavior, like infecting Emu for sending fanmail, he was serious about saving Sakurako and helped to create the cure to revive the Bugster victims, albeit using means that were too extreme and not without consequence, as Kiriya points out that Jungo's suicide is something that Kuroto cannot undo. Masamune is much more depraved though, as he showed no remorse for deleting Saki's data as punishment and probably only sided with Kiriya out of spite for his son.

Regarding this, you wouldn't view Masamune as being redeemed right for being a help to Kiriya? Why wouldn't you view Daichi as the same way as Masamune in the end of Geats? Both are only doing that for personal benefit which happens to be done by allying with the good guys (for Daichi, it's his curiousity to humans he already had since his debut). Another comparison for Daichi might be another four-glasses insane evil genius Utsumi in Build, who sided with the good guys to avenge Namba, and by result benefits them, even having Utsumi shield them, but it wouldn't be redeemed too eh, he prioritized protecting the Lost Bottle and shows open spite to Gentoku still. I also wonder how'd you view Evolt's actions of fighting Killbus, cuz it's also an alliance done for mutual benefit that many people also mistook as "redemption", as usual due to glorifying villains for just benefitting the heroes.