[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

That is, you didn`t understand what I mean, but decided to argue anyway? Okay, I guess. Regarding Fourze, I only mentioned him because the show itself declared friendship as its main theme, so his mention makes the most sense. Kuuga is still more about optimism, although I don`t argue with your statement. As for good or bad, my opinion is that it?s good when it`s mutual and in moderation. That is, friendship with Kaixa is a very dubious event. As well as any communication with him, unless you are a seller of wet wipes. As for "people like me" I want to believe that my opinion is unique enough to do without classifying me to society about which I have no idea. That is, Gotchard was compared to Fourze earlier, but I would venture to guess that I was the first to brazenly declare that the alchemist surpassed the astronaut in the power of friendship. And I haven’t yet seen anyone agree with this, so I think there are still no “people like me” in this regard.

It was a question. I'm also not talking about it being good or bad, just about seemingly that the only ones considered power of friendship is anything related to shonen stuff (and tropes related to it the shouting resolve, the flashback strikes, etc. are highlighted, and often used to give instant win in a seemingly hopeless situation at a last minute). When something like helping each other through emotional or slightly hard times, or getting support and teamwork, also qualifies as friendship power but seemingly not considered due to not fitting what's usually associated with the meme. It's what I meant about Kuuga, where the Grongi are defeated not because Kuuga is a better fighter than them, but because they do things alone, competing against each other, while the humans work together in harmony, always valuing what every single person has to contribute (Ichijou, Sakurako, Enokida, etc.), as said in Fish's threads, where it may come from a main writer most known for Super Senta giving strong sense of teamwork there.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I think Daichi is simply a psychopath, who feels the limited range of emotions typical of such a person, including sadism, anger and despair. There's also the headcanon that the sudden empathy is a trait of JyamaDaichi specifically, as Jyamatos are shown to have the ability to learn human emotions and thus he may have already obtained that capacity upon his Jyamafication. Alternatively, you could be right that his curiosity about "boring mundane happiness" merely gives him desire for empathy, rather than actually possessing it. Regarding the Dark Sisters though, I think there's a contradiction between their words and their actions, as Rinne called out, looking down on friendship while secretly desiring it. Emotions are the root of free will, the catalyst for both good and evil. Which is why it's important for humans to try and understand their own emotions and express them in a healthy way.

I mean yes, back to my talk about Lachesis's reactions to Clotho where I think it's actual display of empathy, I don't think that late Daichi will feel much for people dying or suffering around him (e.g. if he fails the mission to save), other than losing source of curiousity. That is not a display of empathy in my book but it's apathy, unlike people such as Keiwa or Neon dwelling over failed victims, which is actual strive towards others' well-being. And psychopaths do feel emotions, even if they may ignore them if it'd interfere with their goals. He's just a small example though, my main talk is about not separating humanity from evil and I wish that part is focused more. People'd even rationalize their terrible traits to separate them from who they deem monsters, using distinctions to describe themselves (e.g. depicting schadenfreude on people they deem bad as "justice boner", using the term "ethnic cleansing" rather than "genocide").

For the Dark Sisters, it may be more common than just what Rinne points out here. Hermann Hesse quotes "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us". Like bullies tormenting nerds because they can't comprehend wanting to read like those, likely stemming from them being pushed hard to read and turning to hate reading, but deep down wishes to be like the nerds.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Makes sense to be against false association between tsundere and redeeming quality, but no reason to be against tsundere claims in general. Like, Evolt is a very open tsundere villain who often talks about his sentimentality and love/hate relationship with humanity. But the emphasis here should still be on villain, not tsundere, which is just the emotional part. Unfortunately, Olteca doesn't understand how to express his "dere" side, so he goes too far with the "tsun" since that gets him the most consistent emotional reaction. However, his ability to understand what ticks off his friends (sometimes as comedy, like insulting their uniforms) shows that he at least has more emotional awareness than Daichi, who only makes himself look suspicious by saying too much. I think your example of Lachesis is also a tsundere, based on her obsession with Spanner and calling him a dog, like how Gai did to Isamu and making Yua a canine-themed pseudo-Rider, likely in tribute to Thouzer.

How is tsundere not redeeming quality in this case as, "dere" means sweet which sounds like good traits of someone they conceal? For Lachesis, by this I wouldn't want for her to be viewed as, caring equally about Supana and Clotho just has her unique way of expressing it to Supana, and thus because she views him equally to Clotho, she doesn't actually attack or do anything wrong to Supana she's just being good to him and get misunderstood by him, or even worse than if she targets him out of pure hatred - which'd be what I think of opposing this association. It's just one example, but this is also what's used to justify villains, insisting that them consistently targeting said one person isn't bad particularly if the outcome is them becoming better or overcoming them (being a "mentor") as a result.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the magic of friendship and sappy speeches in these shows. Ghost and Saber were just some examples, but I love Fourze for the same reason and they're all near the top of my Rider Rankings. However, I believe these tropes can still exist and be respected in darker shows, like Ryuki and Faiz.

What I'm talking about is that it's not limited to Ghost and Saber, but seemingly just, any lighthearted shows. So, it reads to me that you'd insist the shows lighthearted and... I also got wrong prediction about you, like thinking you'd far prefer Den-O among Kobayashi shows and maybe placing it high up too. I mean I get this because I also predicted that people like Kurona will like Ghost and Saber (and it's right, though not immediately for Ghost), due to her not vibing with darker shows like Ryuki or Faiz. Speaking of those, though you do acknowledge the tropes on those shows, Ryuki'd be bashed by this for making Riders fight each other, and get flak from people like Layton or dreamcastegirl.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

The formula is just there to support and advance the narrative in a sensible way, but the variables that occur within that formula are what makes each show unique. Stepping outside the formula can be a risk and whether or not it pays off depends on the competency of the writer. I mentioned before that Kinoshita tried to make Revice subversive like Ryusoulger, but failed to make it believable.

For formula part, Ryuki seems to fit the risk more as it received flak in its release for featuring evil Riders and... non-bug themed aesthetics. I actually thought "formula" refers to, repetitive episodic format where all the plotlines and beats of each episodes are basically the same except for a few details difference (e.g. different victims and monsters). At least the first half of Revice (maybe more, regardless of how it's handled) is typical Kamen Rider stuff. Otherwise yeah I honestly don't understand about the complaint of the final winner of the show making it good or bad, only judging shows (not about KR but in general) by that which is unfair. Who heroes lose along the way is pointed out by handful of people for something to look out for even in "predictable" stuff, but it's also stated that bad things happening to a character doesn't necessarily make them interesting or a non-Sue (if they're OP and makes everyone irrelevant regardless how attached they're to them).