[Zolda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroWolf

Not to be rude but nothing in the definition of Heroine matches what "providing emotional support to the protagonist". The literal definition is as follows:
"a woman who is admired for having done something very brave or having achieved something great"
The second definition matches Rinne even better:
"the main female character in a book or film, who is usually good"

So I don't quite understand why making Rinne a rider (which I liked) makes her a bad Heroine.

There's a standard (or perhaps the standard) that has been established in the Kamen Rider franchise since the very first entry. A heroine, in this franchise, is almost always (if not always) a young woman who is a peer of the protagonists, who exposes her skin to the risks and dangers of the battlefield, yet is able to stand strong and maintain her courage, provides emotional support to the protagonists, and nurtures the bonds between them. Heroines are often the ones who mediate and soften the interpersonal conflicts and misunderstandings between the protagonists, and sometimes even act as diplomatic representations of the protagonists' side. The strength and courage of the heroines don't come from muscles nor power, but from their nurturing nature. Strength and courage is often not about how much power that you have, but about how long you stand the pressure, get beaten down, and stand back up, no matter how much more powerful the adversaries are. This philosophy of "feminine/gentle strength" was even elegantly elaborated in several scenes and dialogue lines in KR Gaim. Damn you Urobuchi! Haha.

The standard trope of heroines in KR franchise is basically the personification of the other side of strength, as stated by Rocky Balboa in the eponymous 2006 film:
"You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

Can a heroine also be a Rider? Of course! I believe that it can be done, but it would be a very very very difficult task of simultaneously fulfilling the enormous roles of the heroine and the secondary Rider. It would require a very careful planning, something I haven't seen in Gotchard.

Gotchard's producers & writers thought that they could fuse 2 important characters into 1, and the resulting character has very few of the properties of those characters. They're attempting to stone 2 birds at once, and end up missing both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Rinne was never meant to be the heroine, so you're judging her by the wrong standard. I recall Minato the producer was clear from the start that Rinne is the second protagonist and we can see in Episode 4 and 38 that she's the one receiving emotional support. Rinne is an alchemist and in this show, alchemists are sometimes Riders. She's the Dragon to Houtarou's Rabbit, hence why their names add up to 10.

I judge her by the standard that has been established in the Kamen Rider franchise since the very first entry. I've elaborated it in my reply to ZeroWolf above.

Soooooooooo... If Rinne is the second protagonist in Gotchard, not the heroine, then who is the heroine? Who is fulfilling that important role? Renge? She's barely had any impact in the story. Houtarou's mom? She's often absent from the story, and more suited to be a parental figure, not a heroine. Clotho? Lachesis? Atropos? No way they're the heroines. Hijiri? She's only appeared in 4 episodes, although she would make a fine heroine if the hero/main character is Kajiki, haha.

If Rinne is not the heroine, then who? Who? Please enlighten me on this one. This is one of the reasons why I've concluded that Gotchard's story is so hollow, vapid, and lethargic. This is one of the reasons why I've concluded that Gotchard is having an identity crisis. It can't even decide who the heroine is! Let that sink in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Then Gotchard's bad heroine is Hotaro. Rinne has two problems in the show: accusations by the audience of bad acting (for which it is enough to watch the specials to be convinced of the opposite) and only two forms, which is negligible for modern secondary ones. I also have an explanation for the second, but this is not a suitable topic. In any case, as for me, Rinne anyway gets less hate than Keiwa and Daiji, and even when she is sad, she does it without hysterics.

I've never had any problem whatsoever with Rinne's actor's performances. She's a novice actor, and performs like a novice actor does. It's already within my expectation. I concur with your statement that Rinne's actor showcases more range in the Class 3G spin-off. Acting performance has rarely been a problem in this franchise. The problem is not the actor's performances, but the writing.

I've also never had any problem with a secondary Rider having only 2 forms, or rather, 2 base forms in KR Majade's case. KR Ixa, KR Accel, KR Birth, KR Meteor, KR Beast, KR Baron (excluding his kaijin form), KR Mach (excluding the Chaser Mach and Mach Chaser forms) also had 2 forms.

And what do you mean by Houtarou being a bad heroine? Houtarou is the hero, not heroine. Like I've mentioned above, the problems with Rinne's character stem from the fact that this story can't even decide who the heroine is. The problems in Gotchard's writing are the results of some serious production problems happening behind the scene. Sooner or later, what's happening behind the scene will eventually make its way into the screen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaikaijuSokogeki01

I'll admit that I was harsh on Rinne's actress when Gotchard began, but her acting has improved by leaps and bounds. She's especially really good in funny moments, and it's reached the point where I sadly feel she's being wasted in this show.

It's apparent that some BTS shenanigans have derailed the series from its original plan. If I recall correctly, Hasegawa didn't even have a villain group in his original plans for the series. And usually when there's a theme song change like this show had, it's a sign that there's been some sort of creative retool.

Rinne is being wasted in this story, because the story itself is also being wasted. Gotchard's story has sooooooo much potential, perhaps even the most amount of potential in this franchise so far. It's really unfortunate that it has become like this.

I concur with your statement that some serious problems happening behind the scene creep into the story. A customer can often intuitively sense that there's a problem in the kitchen when his order hasn't been delivered in 30 minutes. You nailed it when you said that a change in theme song often signals a major overhaul in creative direction. I interned in several construction projects during university, and Gotchard reminds me of the projects where the clients demanded the architects and contractors to change their plans close to groundbreaking day, and even during construction. Those projects stalled for weeks and months. To me, Gotchard smells like a poorly planned project that is stalling due to too much "improvisation" during construction.