[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yeah sure, I know that. I think the fault lies with Toei then, since the staff use "heroine" as a term for a specific archetype instead of the literal meaning of the word. Rinne is a heroine, but she's not the heroine, if that makes sense. I mean, it doesn't, but that's Toei's internal logic anyway. Like you said, the infamous Female Rider Curse is a whole thing and I think the franchise is still kind of recovering from that, as some people have unfair expectations of female characters becoming Riders, expecting them to suck and/or get killed. To the extreme that even if a female character is a bad character, they don't mind as long as she can fight and impose on others, which is such a toxic way of thinking.

About you referring to people's unfair expectations, regarding females, tbh it seems to be not limited to KR (though KR's specifically about them dying before), but just about any females in fiction. Like even though in outside fiction there are many more females who can fight/provide value/save herself, many people's expectations are still about whether they would be 'reduced as damsel in distress or not' (the reason why they don't mind if they can fight, it's the opposite of this complaint), and if they feel the female they're following shows promise (disappointed or not later is a different story), they still act as if said female is the first (to claim 'finally a good female'), ignoring everything else before.

In general, marginalized identities (not limited to gender, like races, etc.) have always been held to higher standards. Every marginalized identity is seen as a representation of their marginalized status, and therefore used to inform on or judge that identity as a whole. This can make me feel guilty if I'd defend a female if I feel they're reduced by fans (e.g. seen as just <insert male name> spouting machine), or if I acknowledge the merits of a good female (if they're not perfectly handled, then they must be lumped together with all the terrible ones and only nitpick them) because I can feel that I'm also forcing females to conform and holding back their progress.

And I think some of the complaints can just reflect on the person rather than the character. Like about the nurturing stuff talked about, or if they have aspect seen as 'reductive' (wanting to have a family = 'not independent') it's seen as relegating them to stereotypical 'submissive' gender role (obviously males that are seen as having this are deemed as soft and weak like some main Riders). Said support role will also get them complained as 'useless'. I also've seen someone complaining that an actually strong female who is pushed to her limits (after taking down something big, no less) and needing help at that time as being 'reduced to damsel in distress' too. Regarding said traits, I also've written my complaints about this in the Gotchard ep. 45 discussion thread before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zolda

It's not like Mai became the bearer of the Forbidden Fruit out of her volition. She could've ran away and abandon her friends. She could've cowered in fear when she was at Roshuo's place. Her conviction, resolve, and courage to stand strong for her friends and the city of Zawame were the things that impressed Roshuo. He entrusted her as the bearer of the Forbidden Fruit because he was impressed by her commitment to her friends and the city of Zawame, including to those who had betrayed her like Mitchy. She could've chosen to be consumed by fear after seeing the horrors of Helheim, but she chose not to. That's feminine/gentle strength.

For this part, Sh Ranger, even Fish also wrote an appreciation for Mai based on this here (once again an unpopular take too other than not liking Gaim, appreciating her also counts).