[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

And there would be room for it in an episode like this, because the action is far from the only thing that effortlessly makes room for loads of different things to matter all at once. Man, even just the quick beat of Shouma thinking back to when he killed Siita has quite a few layers going on when you stop to consider what the assumptions he's making there say about his own sense of guilt versus the reality of how much the rest of the Stomach Family besides Jiip actually seem to care about the loss.

Shoma had known that Lango mistreated both of the twins when he confronted Lango directly. Though not as much as Jeebh, I'd think Glotta also has cared for Shita's death, and she objected to Lango's indifference about it. Lango only views the twins as company tools and Nyelv only views them as a means to further his research, but dunno if Glotta (or even Bouche) being workaholics means she completely doesn't care about them tbh, as this case can happen to other normal, decent parents too for instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Kinda sad and funny to think this is already the third time we've had a cliffhanger of Gavv stumbling upon Hanto laying on the ground beaten half to death though! Poor guy is here just trying to be a solid friend and a good kouhai and he always seems to get "rewarded" like this. It's like the dude is just fated to suffer or something!

In fighting, obviously Hanto will get that, as clearly Hanto isn't as good of a fighter as Shoma or Lage9, while also having worse equipments than the other 2. Fighting is all about one's capabilities, according to Soji, Hanto always loses the brawl he got into. Valen'd also want to massacre all Granutes without Gavv anyway, as he became a Rider before knowing Shoma.

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

(though the former option seems unlikely, given he’s shown he doesn’t care much for human lives, even calling the idea of helping others ‘dull’).

I mean, obviously, he'd have bad traits for now, why would he be a villain and commit crimes otherwise? Villainy is rooted from bad traits in someone combined with the power/capability to act on it. Maybe you're not into this, considering your disinterest of Gavv otherwise, but being a hero/true Kamen Rider also typically involves inspiring others to be better, and people can change, like how initially one thinks helping others is dull, but they'd be later moved by the heroics and re-evaluate their view.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Could be an intriguing parallel that Hanto hates Granutes due to losing his mother to one, while Vram hates humans due to losing his little bro to Dark Snacks made from humans. Eradicating humans would be another way to resolve the Dark Snacks problem for the Granute world, but totally bad for humans. Maybe Shouma can be like Wataru as a bridge between his two lineages, making Hanto and Vram realize that Stomach are the only ones who need to be punished for their crimes against them both.

That is if Vram would actually even be on the heroes' side in any time of the show. A handful of people already deem Vram as irredeemable due to his killed victims, where in comparison, though the redemption in Ghost like Alain is genuinely one of the best, it seems to be helped by how those villains didn't have onscreen bodycounts/cause irreparable damage that they don't think of them that badly. Even perhaps people like Mitsuzane too, though his crime list is massive, him not actually causing much bodycounts directly (only 1, and turns out Takatora survived) or causing irreparable damage can help him garner sympathy for some people. And also, Shoma likely should never forgive bad guys or believe terrible people may change anymore, considering his experience with the twins and Rojoe, with Hanto's view being validated here, and Shoma being someone who wouldn't spare villains.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Exactly. Redemption isn't about what you did before, but rather what you do right now. Vram making and trading in Hitopresses to Stomach would be the evil that he'd need to redeem himself for, if he wants to go in that direction.

I feel alone in thinking this except for certain few (minority still) like you here, which might make me feel that I'm just being weird, where what Kiwami brought up there is what majority of people would think about redemption. Bringing up about this may be also taboo as this can be a sensitive topic for others. But about the terms too, dunno if using redemption is wrong, by what I wrote here, I thought redemption is about bad guys turning a new leaf, and yes some also has said that redemption is not about what others do, but about themselves, but the exact term for that might be reforming. Seems that many people view redemption term as about, winning over the people who formerly hated you for their deeds, getting undeserved forgiveness from them after all they've done, which can be what differentiates it from reforming/atoning, but it's also a common mistake for people to equate redemption with forgiveness.