[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

SERIES WRAP-UP

9: JK

But he’s a character that the show frequently neglected to utilize – there’re at least a couple two-parters where he’s chilling out with Miu and Shun, despite every single other Amanogawa High student being involved in the main plot. He’s useful for maybe eight episodes in the beginning, helping Gentarou (and the viewer) navigate the social stratas of AGHS, but once the full team is assembled and Meteor is streaking in, JK just doesn’t have a place to exist, or a role to play – he’s just around, and you can tell that no one on the production staff figured out what his next move should be. I like him, and I think he has potential, but he’s clearly the character that got most usurped by Ryuusei and the Horoscopes.

I thought you'd still rank him low because of his debut, where he was the two-faced kind of jerk, but turns out it's because he's just there, where I guess yeah, this may happen exactly because of his cowardice to constantly run away and not contributing something. Of which, many people may agree for this, but where something like upfront jerks like Shun beating up Gentaro for no good reason or sabotaging Fourze's fight may be seen as completely ok. I know that he's unlikable, but I rather hope that said aspect isn't used to convince Gentaro to just cut him off or for the KRC (audience can often only want the characters to be exclusively kind only to their established friends or who they like) to just kick him out (you seem to write this for Ryusei instead), relating to his lack of contribution too and how he felt more repulsive to the audience, where him being unlikable should be the point for Gentaro's philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

7: Shun

Arguably less notable than JK in the long run – once Meteor renders the Power Dizer irrelevant, Shun’s basically just Miu’s accessory – but a combination of fun initial arc (he tackles Fourze!!!), the unbeatable conception of “sweetheart himbo that’s colossally full of himself”, and proximity to Miu render him a fairly likable member of the KRC, even at his least essential. (More or less once he and Miu graduate.)

I felt the sweetheart himbo and colossally full of himself is completely separate thing where the latter is before ep. 8, and he's the former from ep. 8 onwards. I felt that he's the one who changed 180 from the beginning, like Zack from Gaim. And yeah, as the only capable enough Power Dizer user, he should still be constantly using it, even after Meteor is there, as 3 fighters, but maybe, like the usual underutilized powers of Kamen Rider fights, it's about the budget.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

6: Ohsugi

I know. I know! I still find the Scorpion-era Ohsugi to be both repellent and nearly anti-comedy in his leering, obsessive workplace harassment. But there’s a stretch of this show – post-Scorpion, pre-summer movie – where Ohsugi is such a reliable burst of goofy energy, and the secret ingredient to the KRC as a school-adjacent concept, that I totally get why they bring him back more often as a Legend Rider(-friend) than any other character on the show. He grounds the KRC back into the school ecosystem, and having to navigate his lack of genre savvy is always good for a laugh.

Guess even without something like obsessive workplace harassment (just because you have a heroic job in teacher or being a part of a lighthearted show doesn't mean you're a saint or less of a jerk to characters from lighthearted show; I guess, of which you completely expected Tassel to be nice for being a part of Saber), I guess it's recurring for you to find these kind of characters repellent, like Jean, Shunpei, Haima.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

4: Kengo

And I think Kengo carries his side of things beautifully? The high point for me (non-47/48 category) has to be Cosmic States, where Kengo has to devise and fulfill a Gentarou plan to revive Gentarou, and the ability for Kengo to do that was such a brilliant example of how these two knuckleheads impacted each other for the better. If I like Fourze, it’s because of this friendship.

Among the KRC, I guess I'd relate most to Kengo, with some Tomoko thrown to the mix. I guess though, what's fully Gentaro's plan for Kengo is when he got murdered by Gamou, to tell the others to not hate him while stopping him, as for Cosmic States, Kengo was full of anger and hatred (justificably) to Ryusei, and he's only following Tachibana's instructions.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

3: Gentarou

He’s the constant that guides others, brings them together, and helps them become the best versions of themselves through attention and support. He’s unwavering, and he doesn’t change along with the characters. He’s reliable and dependable and lots of other ables (to quote Dave Lister), and that’s the perfect lead Rider for this show. Not every show needs the lead Rider to be a POV character that resolves their own traumas or learns something new about themselves. (I love that there’s literally one mention of Gen’s parents’ having a mysterious job before their mysterious death, and it never comes up again, and Gen is smiling the whole time he recounts this part of his past.) There are shows like Gavv and Gotchard that are all about growing up and figuring out your shit, as seen through the lens of the title character; then there are shows like Kabuto, or Geats, or Fourze, where the title Rider is one that largely exists as a port in a storm, an idealized figure that we can trust to show us the way forward. Gen was that Rider, despite his youth and naivete. He was steady, and an exemplar of the power of friendship. He didn’t need to change or grow, because he was more concerned about making sure all of his friends got the chance to change and grow. That’s a hero.

I guess it can be ture about how Kabuto or Geats acted as idealized figure in influencing others with their hypercompetence, but while I already said my piece about Kabuto back in that thread, Geats was someone who did something like JK early on (more like second episode). And for a show lead that isn't about resolving their trauma, that'd be also Yuusuke in Kuuga (also has deceased parents). Gentaro is also, though a newcomer in Rider system, he's also already an experienced on in fighting (the main thing Riders do, obviously), albeit he's no match for actual trained martial artists like Ryusei or Utsugi.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

1: Miu

It’s such a fun character, the haughty mean girl who basically becomes the leader of a superhero team through her indomitable will and unshakable self-belief, while reframing her haughtiness as hard-earned pride, and her meanness as motivating steel. Whenever the show needed to quickly and smartly establish the stakes – comedy or drama – a line from Miu would get the job done. My favorite actor on the show, and the one who I always, always believed. I wish the show had kept her as central to the storytelling post-graduation, but even in the aftermath of her presidency, she usually got a good scene every other episode. (I don’t love that string of four episodes or so where it’s just her and Shun and whomever hanging out in the Rabbit Hatch while the story happened elsewhere, but she even made that work.)

I wonder if what's stand out in Fourze compared to other high school settings of the shows, though this may happen because it's one of the Kamen Rider shows that is meant to be about teaching morals or lessons (and Fourze also being lighthearted one), is about how the popular isn't necessarily only demonized and used as strictly an adversary, enemy, or obstacle (even the nice popular person in these setting isn't a genuine friend, the good guys are only the unpopular ones, including for the formerly popular ones who no longer popular, with unpopular being corrupted if they're in popular circle). I guess, Gentaro himself is also a "delinquent", mainly looks, but that he also has a fighting skill of one and also is against rules, which rubs some teachers the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

Honestly, at the end of the day, after all these years, Fourze is a series where I feel nothing. I don’t hate it, but it’s not cracking my top 10 either. Which if you’re familiar with my opinions on… anything shouldn’t be a surprise (and if you’re not, the basic low-down is that I’m meh on anything beloved and popular, while drawn to stuff that most people are neutral to at best, dislike at worst. That’s not even a Toku only thing, I don’t like Kevin Conroy’s take on Batman)

I wonder who'd be the ideal type of main character/Rider in this case, if Gentaro, someone who's seemingly the few one who got critically acclaimed, isn't something memorable to you.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

You got the goal and means backwards. Gamou wanted to meet the Presenters after hearing the voice of space and due to his lack of faith in others, he decided to use the most expedient yet destructive method to ensure he would succeed. This was the reason for his disagreement and betrayal of Rokurou, who wanted humanity to meet the Presenters.

Probably my mistake, just that I thought Rokuro didn't specifically seek to see the Presenters, where IIRC he only talked about making Fourze Drivers, Astroswitches, and passing them to the next generations.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Rogue planet

More like about referring to him as true hero like Tendou before.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I also want to clarify like you did for JK that I don't actively dislike any of these characters. They all have some good points. Kamen Rider Fourze is such an awesome show and that's mostly thanks to this lovable group of different individuals making the world around them worth protecting.

I rather felt that, at least from what Die said above, there'd be still characters who feel that they're just there, like JK or Shun. Of which, though personal feelings might be different, it can seem that you'd be way harsher for these cases in other shows that aren't Fourze or Ghost type, but lets it slide for these kind of shows. I guess, I more meant that deeming someone as being bad or irrelevant is still subjective.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

And that's totally okay. Gentarou wouldn't want you to say something you don't believe. I respect that your opinion is authentic and not just jumping on bandwagons.

Well, there's a comment in this thread to force people to like Miu.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

This is something this thread has got me thinking about lately, but, as best as I can currently put this theory, I'm starting to think my relationship with Fourze is sort of locked in time in a way that isn't true of any other Rider show for me? I associate it so strongly with a really specific point in my life that it's hard to think of it outside that context. It actually made rewatching the show a sluggish process for me, because I kept having that experience I described with the Meteor stuff in the finale over and over again, especially in the early episodes. It's the lighthearted show that makes me smile, but I kept getting choked up over scenes that aren't quite supposed to be *that* emotional, even when they are emotional, dramatic scenes. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the episode where Tomoko joins the club did me in worse than any of them.

It seems to apply in your case for any lighthearted shows like Fourze, Wizard, Ghost, Saber.