[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Okay, a lot of what you say here doesn't have a lot to do with what we're talking about, so I'm only going to respond to what is in an attempt to streamline our posts.You typo'd or autocorrected or something so I'm not sure what you're saying, but yes, I can absolutely use the show's pacing as a reflection of the character, because the show's pacing affects EVERYTHING IN IT.

People have a habit of pointing out aspects as if they standalone, not remembering that all these terms like 'pacing' go together to make the show what it is, and they all affect eachother. If anything you are just reinforcing my arguement taht teh show has no redeemign factros if it's pacing is affecting an otherwise acceptable character.

Except it isn't, and you can't even come close to saying that. I just went on an abridged tirade about Shotaro's character and what we find out about him in the first sixteen episodes. Ditto Shinji. Haruto has no excuse.

Except you see, I feel like that would be the easy and typical way out. Hell, you yourself complained about Eiji's initial strain from combos.

Oh wow, you actually used "it's not the show, it's you." Almost word-for-word.

Haruto does not have a wry sense of humour, he has no sense of humour unless it's to the really silly stuff. And even then it's forced and unnatural. To put it bluntly, you're making up excuses and character aspects that don't exist.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

Well, that doesn't help your point, since you've only seen like, what, four? five?

It also doesn't help that you never mention which series you've seen. And the way you talk you basically imply you've seen, like, the entire Heisei era when you list off, like, four riders and then say "much, much more."

And the thing is, you mention you've seen more "goofs" then Haruto and Eiji, which basically means you're callign Gentaro, Shotaro, Ryoutaro and Godai "goofs." Can't speak for Godai and I'll give you Gen, but no way in any sensible hell are Shotaro and Ryoutaro "goofs." Again, do yourself a MASSIVE favoure and at least check out the W portion of the W and Decade movie so you can finally at least get a hint of what's to immediately come in W. You could not have picked a worse time to bail on that show. Ryoutaro is far from a goof. Even when he's meek and timid he's not a goof. He's got terrible luck and is the butt end of slapstick, but he himself is not goofy, just terribly unfortunate,

I will be the first to admit Wizard is poorly paced but I've yet to watch a Toku series that isn't. Most Kamen Rider series I've seen would have worked just as well with half the episodes, normally the middle section being a painful and slow crawl until the show realises it needs to wrap things up.

OOO is really the only one that booked the trend so far by having awful and bland episodes for the first third of the series, then really getting its act together in the middle.

ONCE AGAIN all of the Rider I HAVE SEEN. Why do I need to keep reminding that bit? Isn't that a given? Using examples from shows I haven't watched doesn't prove anything, maybe if I watched that then I wouldn't like him as much but as I haven't...I do like him as much as I do.

Did I complain about Eiji's initial strain? I don't really remember, I eat those words then because I appreciate that Gen and Fourze feel like the same person and that Eiji and Os feel like the same person but they are really the only Rider's I have come across yet that do.

Saying Haruto's humour flat out doesn't exist because it went over your head is just as flippant as well.

I've caught up to one show, completed two others, almost finished a further two. But I've also tried out like ten others on top of that.

I meant much much more in terms of Haruto being whatever I was talking about in that context not much more Riders.

Godai wasn't just a goof, he was a frustrating moron. My least favourite Rider so far.

I said I'll get back to W eventually but I have stuff I actually want to watch first.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I will be the first to admit Wizard is poorly paced but I've yet to watch a Toku series that isn't. Most Kamen Rider series I've seen would have worked just as well with half the episodes, normally the middle section being a painful and slow crawl until the show realises it needs to wrap things up.

You're either lying or your like of KR street cred is jiving you upside, homie.

I will admit, I've yet to see an excellently paced KR series just because it every series seems to need to be "broken in" befor ethey hit full stride, but Wizard's pacing is not even pacing. It's tanding still.

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ONCE AGAIN all of the Rider I HAVE SEEN. Why do I need to keep reminding that bit?

BECAUSE YOU KEEP ACTING LIKE WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IS ALL THERE IS. And you act like watching the first episode of every series is indicative of the show overall based on your above addendum.

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Did I complain about Eiji's initial strain? I don't really remember, I eat those words then because I appreciate that Gen and Fourze feel like the same person and that Eiji and Os feel like the same person but they are really the only Rider's I have come across yet that do.

Bullshit. You cannot look at Shotaro and W and not think they're the same guy. I almost thought it was Shotaro in the suit because the guy who is in the suit (the same guy who plays every Heisei rider besides Kuuga and Hibiki) matches his body language so freaking well.

And when it comes to Den-O, well, that's the point. But I don't think you meant him.

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Saying Haruto's humour flat out doesn't exist because it went over your head is just as flippant as well.

Except it didn't and that isn't. It didn't go "over my head" (BTW thanks for outright calling me stupid bro, you're a peach if I ever saw one) it isn't there. At least not in the first sixteen episodes where the dude BARELY FUCKING TALKS about anything besides a phantom let alone has any humour.

I don't even know why argueing Haruto is even the main point here. He's LITERALLY the only part of Wizard we disagree on. But I seriously, seriously cannot agree with anything you say about him having any kind of character or personality. I'm almost inclined to keep watching Wizard, not so much to find support for my claims, but find out where this mysterious missing personality has been hiding from me.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

You're either lying or your like of KR street cred is jiving you upside, homie.

I will admit, I've yet to see an excellently paced KR series just because it every series seems to need to be "broken in" befor ethey hit full stride, but Wizard's pacing is not even pacing. It's tanding still.

BECAUSE YOU KEEP ACTING LIKE WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IS ALL THERE IS. And you act like watching the first episode of every series is indicative of the show overall based on your above addendum.

Bullshit. You cannot look at Shotaro and W and not think they're the same guy. I almost thought it was Shotaro in the suit because the guy who is in the suit (the same guy who plays every Heisei rider besides Kuuga and Hibiki) matches his body language so freaking well.

And when it comes to Den-O, well, that's the point. But I don't think you meant him.

Except it didn't and that isn't. It didn't go "over my head" (BTW thanks for outright calling me stupid bro, you're a peach if I ever saw one) it isn't there. At least not in the first sixteen episodes where the dude BARELY FUCKING TALKS about anything besides a phantom let alone has any humour.

I don't even know why argueing Haruto is even the main point here. He's LITERALLY the only part of Wizard we disagree on. But I seriously, seriously cannot agree with anything you say about him having any kind of character or personality. I'm almost inclined to keep watching Wizard, not so much to find support for my claims, but find out where this mysterious missing personality has been hiding from me.

Lying about my street cred, what? My problem with Wizard is that it always feels like the interesting part of the show is always happening in the background and instead we focus on all the completely uninteresting and pointless sidestories which would never usually be the focus of anything. This has been especially true since I caught up to the show, damnit.

I think you should be able to judge individual episodes, without talking about the series as a whole, they are made to be watched a week apart after all.

I never got a sense that Philip and Shotaro were W in the episodes I watched, they gave Sho a few stunts and gadgets but that didn't make me assume he was the brilliant marksman and brawler he was whenever he transformed. And considering how much Philip helped in the fighting despite showing no such thing even in his nature is even worse. Maybe it gets better when the good part of the show starts.

I appreciate how much Os and Fourze match up to Eiji and Gen's body language and I appreciate that we see Eiji and Gen achieve things out of the suit, including fighting, to add believability it is still them when they transform.

Missing a joke isn't a mark of stupidity, I often ask where the joke is in an episode of Big Bang theory while the laughing track is screaming away. I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to find Big Bang Theory funny not miss the jokes.

I hope you warm up to Haruto as you go (:

[Sentai]

I'm rewatching OOO and I had a random thought.

Anything Goes is a great theme song. But OOO is one of the series' where the form themes are better then the opening theme. Tajador being the perfect example.

While Fourze's theme is much better then any of his form themes. Except maybe Cosmic Mind.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I think you should be able to judge individual episodes, without talking about the series as a whole, they are made to be watched a week apart after all.

I agree. That's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of Wizard. The individual episodes feel... hollow.

And don't mistake my "overall" comments to mean you can only appreciate the show once it's done or somethign, it's just once you ARE done you can't help but remember the show and see the big picture.

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I never got a sense that Philip and Shotaro were W in the episodes I watched, they gave Sho a few stunts and gadgets but that didn't make me assume he was the brilliant marksman and brawler he was whenever he transformed. And considering how much Philip helped in the fighting despite showing no such thing even in his nature is even worse. Maybe it gets better when the good part of the show starts.

That's just the crux of these kinds of shows. You don't see the rider fight outside the costume much early on becaus ethey want the figths to be the suits since they're still selling the the series. Plus Shotaro only gets super brawly because that's the power of the Joker memory, it offers increased agility and fighting skill. It's funny, because in a later movie we actually see both Philip and Shotaro fight side-by-side in human form against an enemy to show how far they've come.

Also, Philip doesn't contribute physically to W in his main forms. The movie and later the series explains that, and I'll spare you the details, Philip is basically designed to be part of W. He's like an onboard computer for whoever uses the actual W driver, and this is expanded upon later. It also puts everything in perspective when you realise W isn't a rider with guidance from a floating arm or a train-full of weirdos, he's a detective figuring things out. Think of it like Batman in his early years.

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I appreciate how much Os and Fourze match up to Eiji and Gen's body language and I appreciate that we see Eiji and Gen achieve things out of the suit, including fighting, to add believability it is still them when they transform.

They deffinately get better with this as time goes on. I think it's just the range of the suit actor snce, like I said, it's ONE GUY playing every Heisei rider. tehy cna't always gel seemlesly, but teh ammount of times they do is impressive. Even if I don't like Haruto, I'll still agree it feels like him in the suit.

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Missing a joke isn't a mark of stupidity, I often ask where the joke is in an episode of Big Bang theory while the laughing track is screaming away. I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to find Big Bang Theory funny not miss the jokes.

Goddman we agree on so much why must we clash on things like Wizard and W?

And I hope if you ever get back to W you'll at least see why it's as popular as it is. It's not perfect at all, I could probably find things wrong with it, but like I said every aspect of the show goes together to make a cohesive story, and W does that really, really well once all is said and done. Plus the last movie is excellent.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

I agree. That's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of Wizard. The individual episodes feel... hollow.

And don't mistake my "overall" comments to mean you can only appreciate the show once it's done or somethign, it's just once you ARE done you can't help but remember the show and see the big picture.

That's just the crux of these kinds of shows. You don't see the rider fight outside the costume much early on becaus ethey want the figths to be the suits since they're still selling the the series. Plus Shotaro only gets super brawly because that's the power of the Joker memory, it offers increased agility and fighting skill. It's funny, because in a later movie we actually see both Philip and Shotaro fight side-by-side in human form against an enemy to show how far they've come.

Also, Philip doesn't contribute physically to W in his main forms. The movie and later the series explains that, and I'll spare you the details, Philip is basically designed to be part of W. He's like an onboard computer for whoever uses the actual W driver, and this is expanded upon later. It also puts everything in perspective when you realise W isn't a rider with guidance from a floating arm or a train-full of weirdos, he's a detective figuring things out. Think of it like Batman in his early years.

They deffinately get better with this as time goes on. I think it's just the range of the suit actor snce, like I said, it's ONE GUY playing every Heisei rider. tehy cna't always gel seemlesly, but teh ammount of times they do is impressive. Even if I don't like Haruto, I'll still agree it feels like him in the suit.

Goddman we agree on so much why must we clash on things like Wizard and W?

And I hope if you ever get back to W you'll at least see why it's as popular as it is. It's not perfect at all, I could probably find things wrong with it, but like I said every aspect of the show goes together to make a cohesive story, and W does that really, really well once all is said and done. Plus the last movie is excellent.

At first it was okay because The Gates were part of the shows mythos and Haruto would take trips into their inner Underworlds and the show would fill in gaps with flashbacks to the Sabbat and it worked well but then the show never really changed as villains should have really been getting a plan together and really stepping up but still the show just seemed to continue the same arc over and over again. I mean sure they had the Phoenix Gremlin mix up half way through but that also feels totally random and out of place.

Sadly for me by the end of the series I normally end up hating it I find with most shows I watch, the first third is the strongest as that is when they can take their time to just explore things and find their feet, it's when the show has to get its act together that it falls apart. Which is why it surprised me so much that when OOO had to get its act together it did...and in a big way.

You always make W sound much more interesting than I found it I guess the good stuff comes later, just a shame about the slow pacing.

I've always loved how different Haruto and Wizard feel and yet how much it works. It's almost like whenever Haruto transforms he lets loose and has some fun and it's hard not to be swept up in it all.

Also just watched Fourze 40 which was really bland in some areas and then awesome in others. So many twists. Tomoko no! Taurus is probably one of my new favourite Horoscopes but Virgo is also pretty epic in all her transgender awesome.

I loved that the explanation for Taurus' motivations were hormones, I dunno whether they intended it to be hilarious but it was. Almost like a knowing nod at just how meaningless and stupid Fourze is as it all takes place in a single high school in Japan and has so far had very little effect outside of said school.

Also I've only just noticed (slowpoke) just how mismatched Ryusei is to Meteor, his suit actor is like twice his height and build. What, is he Justin or something?

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

You always make W sound much more interesting than I found it I guess the good stuff comes later, just a shame about the slow pacing.

And that's what drives me crazy. The first sixteen or so episodes are establishing a lot, like the usual stuff like setting and villaisn and methods, as well as stuff like Philip not remembering his family and Shotaro's guilt in preperation for teh movie and show's future. I mean, you don't even know who Skull is! It's really the movie war where we finally see that W is gonna have a lot to it. I mean, plenty of Rider shows have history and backstory before the series itself, but W really has a "wow, it's WAY bigger than we thought it was" and that's the best part.

Also on Meteor: yeah, sometimes they get actors who match the secondary rider stunt man (again, pretty much all secondary riders are the same dude under the suit. I wonder if he and the main rider actor ever hang out) sometimes they don't. Hell, Den-O kind of becomes a giant when you see him next to Hana, who's shorter but about the same size as Ryoutaro out of the suit. I think for Henshins they sometimes stand the actor on a box or somethign to match the suited rider.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Also on Meteor: yeah, sometimes they get actors who match the secondary rider stunt man (again, pretty much all secondary riders are the same dude under the suit. I wonder if he and the main rider actor ever hang out) sometimes they don't. Hell, Den-O kind of becomes a giant when you see him next to Hana, who's shorter but about the same size as Ryoutaro out of the suit. I think for Henshins they sometimes stand the actor on a box or somethign to match the suited rider.

You would think, considering these fights are made specifically for these shows and aren't adaptations that you'd match the suit and out of suit actors up together properly. I mean like Power Rangers has no excuse either I get that but being that they're getting new out of suit actors they do have to try a bit harder to make it all match up but here they should fit together perfectly with no excuse.

Anyway I just watched OOO 38, Maki's plan was brilliant in its simplicity, rather than sending an enemy one at a time he just sends them all out at once, duh! Shit really got real.

For once I'm actually glad they went back on a death and just had them leave instead as even seeing Date leave breaks my heart as he was my favourite character. Please tell me he comes back? Although I do recognise I only have like ten episodes left...

Brotou was fucking badass this week though.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

For once I'm actually glad they went back on a death and just had them leave instead as even seeing Date leave breaks my heart as he was my favourite character. Please tell me he comes back? Although I do recognise I only have like ten episodes left...

You have not seen the last of Date.

[Den-O]

Every time this conversation comes up I swear I'm the only person who actually wanted Date to leave

I hate it when new characters become the secondary riders. It was no different with Date just strolling into town as Birth leaving GOtou high and dry after all that training. I resent the character over that, even after he leaves and comes back later. I enjoy the secondary role he has when he comes back but I couldn't stand him for a majority of the series.